Any number of people have asked how the conclusion was reached of having made a SuperCycle and Cycle Top in 2018. This conclusion was simply based on Elliott's requirements. The requirements are these: 1] that waves travel in parallel channels, as below, 2] that one of the waves will likely extend, 3] that, in general there will be alternation between waves two and wave four, and wave four will not overlap wave one; 4] that wave three will 'typically' represent the most dynamic wave, and 5] that wave three (or any impulsive wave) can extend only if the internal waves make progressively smaller degree sub-waves.
DJIA - Quarterly - Wave Degrees |
So with those requirements in mind, the conclusion is relatively straight forward. 1] When the parallel is drawn, only Cycle waves II and IV contact the parallel. 2] Within the Cycle waves, Primary ((3)) is the extended wave each time. And, for the Cycle waves, wave xV is the extended wave, both in price and time. Most people have not dealt with extended fifth waves. They usually occur with the momentum indicators "all green", and only after an extended wave base that provides sufficient support for such a dynamic rise. That long, drawn-out base is Cycle IV. 3] For alternation in the Cycle Waves, wave II is a simple sharp. Cycle wave IV is a complex or a non-limiting triangle, which both Prechter and Neely recognized. And within the Cycle waves, for Cycle III, Primary ((4)) is a Flat, while Primary ((2)) is a simple sharp. And within Cycle wave V, Primary ((2)) is a short sharp, and Primary ((4)) is the long-in-time flat. Cycle IV does not overlap Cycle I. Neither does Primary ((4)) overlap Primary ((1)) within Cycle V or Cycle III. 4] It should be relatively obvious that the third waves chosen represent the most dynamic growth in terms of the post-war boom to 1965, and the dawn of the Internet and Financial Engineering to the year 2000.
For item 5] the degree labeling, because Cycle IV is longer in time than Cycle II, the two waves must be of the same degree, or else Cycle IV is of one higher degree. The two waves are the same degree, and the internal subwaves of IV can be broken down into price segments which are log-shorter in price than Cycle II, and shorter in time. And, there is the possibility of a triangle, so there is no degree violation.
Then, counting forward in time from Cycle II, Primary ((1)) is log-shorter in price than Cycle I, so it does qualify as a sub-wave. Further, each of the sub-waves of Primary x((3)) can be broken down into a log-shorter sub-wave than Primary ((1)), and so qualifies as an extension. In particular, the short choppy interior of Primary x((3)) is where these "shorter in price and shorter in time" extensions are occurring. This same situation exists in Primary ((3)) of Cycle V, so I will not belabor the point. Also note that Primary ((5)) = Primary ((1)) in log-price. Readers will also note that Primary ((3)) of Cycle V is also shorter in log-price and time than all of Cycle III. If this were not the case, the entire count would have to be revised somehow. I didn't make the waves; they turned out that way. This requirement exists because of the nature of an extended fifth wave. In other words, while wave three of an extended fifth wave can be the extended wave, it can still not violate the definitions of degree already on the chart!
Now counting forward in time from Cycle IV, note that Primary ((1)) is shorter than Cycle III in log-price and time. It is also likely shorter in log-price than Cycle I, but is not required to be because we are counting waves forward in time only. Then, Primary ((2)) is definitely shorter in time than Cycle IV. It is also likely that Primary ((2)) of Cycle V is shorter in log-price than the largest internal segments of Cycle IV. It is also definitely shorter in log-price and time than Cycle II, but it is not required to be, again, because we are counting waves forward in time.
Primary ((4)) is clearly longer in time than Primary ((2)). That means that the waves must either be of the same degree or Primary ((4)) must be one degree higher. The two waves are of the same degree, and the net travel in Primary ((4)) is about the same as the deepest portion (or maximum excursion) within Cycle IV. Further, Primary ((4)) is shorter in time than Cycle IV, which it is required to be.
From there to the 2018 top, the count has already been outlined, along with the rationale provided in the post called Trillions (at this LINK) back in June 2020.
Certain people may have objections to this count. I, however, can not disagree with Elliott. Where else will you find an analysis that covers both price and time? And, for free, no less. Further, I have stated Elliott's original principles in referring to this count, and merely attempt to live up to the definitions of degree labels.
Some people have tried to advance certain ideas regarding the time relationships among waves. For example, that wave two's must always be longer in time than their wave one's. To me, there are several wave two's in this very long term chart that disprove that hypothesis. Further, you will get all sorts of other counts on this wave because many people doing casual Elliott analysis will almost completely ignore which wave is the ended wave in the sequence. I think it is important to recognize that the extended fifth wave is a case not many have studied. In fact, there are few opportunities to study it.
Further, in my view it is completely economically justified to make Cycle V the extended wave based on the unprecedented easy interest rate policies and quantitative easing of FED Chairs Greenspan, Bernanke, Yellen and Powell. By doing so, they made the extension possible. This is completely distinct from the so-called 'heroic' Paul Volker efforts to tighten interest rates to 18%.
Please remember to count waves forward in time. You can not go back and say, "if I was alive in 1932, I would have been a buyer!" Wish though we might, it just doesn't work that way. On the other hand, we can endeavor to follow as many of Elliott's observations as possible.
Have an excellent rest of the weekend.
TraderJoe
Are we still in Wave A of the correction from 5?
ReplyDeleteno, we are in Primary ((B)), up. After Primary ((C)) down, we will label cycle "a", down.
DeleteTJ
Thanks. Very interesting. Amazing that an ABC correction is so fast in time compared to the total trend.
Deleteyw ,, but I think you are missing the point that it only starts a larger correction. After it, will be Cycle a, b, c which will likely greatly extend the correction in price and time.
DeleteTJ
Ah ok got it, ty :)
Deletethx. Likey the Primary waves should be clearly visible on this time scale. A running flat would really 'squish together' those Primary ((A)) and ((C)) waves. That being said, down to the "mid-channel" and the tops of prior waves Primary x((3)) of V, and the top of Intermediate (B) of Primary ((4)) might work. But yes, it 'could' go down to the lower channel, then make a higher high as Cycle b.
ReplyDeleteIt is simply to early to tell yet. It really is putting the cart before the horse when we don't yet appear to have finished this up trend. However, 'often' prior fourth waves are very common targets. And, there are several prominent fourth waves on this chart.
TJ
I should know this, but not sure. As our ((A)) is itself an exp flat, to derive the external retrace of ((A)) for ((B)) exp flat, do we measure from:
ReplyDelete1. the beginning of ((A)) to its lowest point OR
2. from the highest point of ((A)) to its lowest point
Thanks, and what a lot of work you did for the chart above!! Thanks for that as well.
Welcome. I will reply only with this diagram.
Deletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/Ubppi9yi/
TJ
Thanks, and nice little jab at Neely, lol.
DeleteYet another excellent post TJ. In this scenario "However, 'often' prior fourth waves are very common targets" , Would it be 4th of same degree or one lesser degree?
ReplyDeleteThanks in Advance.
thx .. Primary ((4)) is of 'one lesser degree' than Cycle V. Cycle IV is 'one lesser degree' than SuperCycle [III].
ReplyDeleteTJ
An observation: it would appear that your chart above supports the premise that cash charts are quite adequate for EW, regardless of "missing" highs/lows that occur in the overnight futures.
ReplyDelete..on longer time scales.
DeleteThanks Truly.
ReplyDeleteTJ- One more thing and I promise I willn't bother you again at least this weekend-:)
ReplyDeleteRegarding your post above- Yes it fulfills all the ew rules and makes sense, but whats a bit unsettling to me is, that it is highly unusual to see three wave degrees, ALL making higher highs on expanded flats.
I mean we had Int B in 2019-20(higher Hi) and now in Primary B ( higher Hi) and then as you mentioned above "But yes, it 'could' go down to the lower channel, then make a higher high as Cycle b."
So Thats three B's so speak at three different degree levels and all are making exp flat B waves?
Have you seen anything like this before?
Your work is much appreciated
Are my posts being removed by the spam filter, can't see to post links..?
ReplyDeletePlease see the disclaimer below. A link to a blog site is not allowed by the guidelines of this site.
DeleteOkay thank you, shall try again with the links removed.
DeleteThe latest efforts continue to show a link to a paid site in the upper left hand corner. Please 'discontinue' posting here, both for that reason and because none of the wave counts follow any reasonable sort of degree labeling. In short, they are 'cartoons'.
DeleteTJ
The remaining last link is to TradingView which is not a personal site, its the same link on your charts.
DeleteYou seem to allow far more other 'cartoons' here, except mine.
Yes. This is my blog, not yours. Please promote your own work on your blog, not mine. I do not go to other sites to troll them.
DeleteIf you want to leave a comment like "I think we are in GS3, instead of SC(III)," then that is succinct, and non-promotional. Got it?
Deletebut I did not say that Cycle b 'must' go over the top. Here is the DOW's Cycle IV wave. They are 'all' 90%+ waves to the upside. Fourth waves can do some very untoward things. Some went 'over the top'; some didn't,
ReplyDeleteTJ
https://www.tradingview.com/x/SXrLGD88/
Thank you so much for this work ET. I really enjoy the long term stuff and watching human behavior over the years.
ReplyDeleteIt appears dogecoin is were it should be on the chart.
1. The concept is for 'long term' time frames, more than 1 - 3 yrs.
ReplyDelete2. It applies primarily on log charts.
3. The reason it applies is because of inflation (money printing).
4. Elliott recognized the need to use log charts for long term work.
And, it can only apply if previous degrees have been developed on the chart.
I have definitely used this concept before. See the chart of Bitcoin.
http://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2021/02/bitcoin-special.html
Nothing new.
TJ
Thoughts on daily VIX -
ReplyDeletehttps://funkyimg.com/i/3bUTp.png
There was no trolling in any of my comments!
ReplyDeleteThere are no links or promotion on the following chart:
https://i.ibb.co/p4Qbmgf/DOW.png
Criticism is welcome since the author sees no violations of Elliott Wave guidelines.
As I said. I started out with Elliott's theory of parallels. You are ignoring it at every opportunity. So, you 'are' ignoring an EW guideline. You can care less about it. And, you are lying about it.
DeleteStay Blessed TJ and have a great evening. Thanks Again.
ReplyDeleteJoe, thanks for that extensive long term chart and explanation. With Dow Theory still positive, with AD LIne at new highs, with new highs slowly increasing at what point based on say time would you expect the B wave to last. Also since this is a Primary ABC , I would think this should last many years no? Will be interesting to watch as many technicians are calling for long term bull and Hurst cycles calling for low in Sept/ Oct timeframe but not a huge sell off. Appreciate your diligent and hard work to show the waves. Sam
ReplyDeleteThanks, TJ. This gives me a bit more clarity on degree labelling. Could you explain a little more about what you mean by "counting forward in time", i.e. why the primary waves in extended V are compared only to Cycle III and IV but not necessarily to Cycle I and II?
ReplyDeleteI remember Neely had retracement of extended 5th is usually >0.618 xW5. Any guidance from your own experience?
Yes, you have the basic idea. You can't go back and change the past. The waves made are the waves made. And, typically, >0.618 to a full retrace.
Delete👍 great work. Thank you
ReplyDeleteBasis TJ's chart above, thoughts on ((C)) - [assumes same count applies to SPY] -
ReplyDeletehttps://funkyimg.com/i/3bUYG.png
👍 thanks
DeleteTJ:
ReplyDelete1. How far can a B-wave travel before you consider the rise from the March 2020 low as something else? And what would be that something else?
2. Do you have a particular time horizon or price or a Fibonacci-based extension which rules out a B-wave from the March 2020 low ?
3. The largest drop in the DJIA30 index since 1932 (the end of the Great Depression) was during the 2007-2009 Great Recession, it was a -54% decline. And still remains the largest decline in the last 89 years. So, wouldn't it be suited to label this wave as a CYCLE or SUPER CYCLE degree decline, instead of PRIMARY degree?
RE: 1 & 2, I already answered some of this in my prior post...
Deletehttp://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2021/04/its-time-to-talk-about-time.html
And in a long-ago post called "Outsized B Waves.""
https://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2019/04/base-channels-and-out-sized-b-waves.html
The max for a B wave structure is a triple zigzag. I am flexible as to time, per the above.
3. No. That is not the 'net' drop from the 2000 high.
TJ
Thanks TJ.
ReplyDeleteWhat is 66d5hrs on the chart?
Also what time frame and price are you looking for B to complete and does the C drop looks more than 50% ?
manu .. re: 66 d5hrs .. that is a figure from Trading View on time needed for the next bar to close. No significance.
DeletePlease read this prior post ..
http://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2021/04/its-time-to-talk-about-time.html
TJ
Thanks Trader Joe. Fantastic work. Still follow daily, just keeping a low profile.
ReplyDeleteThanks 👍
ReplyDeleteIs there a guideline or rule about B wave extension relative to A ?
Please read this prior post first ...
Deletehttps://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2019/04/base-channels-and-out-sized-b-waves.html
TJ
Good morning all. Here is the ES 30-min intraday wave-counting screen with update daily pivot points (classic calculation) and local fractals.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/TGaWemql/
The intraday Bollinger Bands are pretty narrow, and there is a possibility the futures will channel from the prior low.
TJ
A peek at the 2hr (line) -
ReplyDeletehttps://funkyimg.com/i/3bV6T.png
(CNBC) A second bitcoin exchange collapses in Turkey amid crackdown on cryptocurrencies.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/26/turkish-bitcoin-exchange-vebitcoin-collapses-amid-crypto-crackdown.html
I didn't know a CEO could allegedly 'just leave the country'. Lol.
TJ
This kind of news doesn't even get talked about anymore. That's how bullish people are on crypto. It's just bizarre.
DeleteI cant help but want to put capitalism on the left and socialism on the right on the above chart.
ReplyDeleteES 30-min; here is the potential up channel on this time frame. Very possible the wave ((4)) is in, or will be in at the cash open, as a target has been met.
ReplyDeletehttps://invst.ly/ul9r6
A ((5)) = ((1)) could make a new high from here. If it extends, then a wave of ((5)) = 0.618 x net [((1)) through ((3))] might work.
TJ
TJ - Thank you for posting this chart, it's the type of content that will be referenced for a long time!
ReplyDeleteWe also appreciate the time and effort over the weekend to explain the rationale/basis for the impulse Cycle wave.
I have potentially a dumb question. I know you covered degree violations ad nauseam over the years, but I must be missing something. The Cycle wave II is 5 years (1937-1942). On the 'Trillons' post, the SuperCycle Wave II is 3 years (1929-1932).
Is that higher degree wave two being shorter than lower degree wave two a violation?
Thx
A less serious response would be, 'the market doesn't think so, as the market has done what it has done.' A more serious response is that the matter is under review. There may be a reason why not.
DeleteTJ
Just a suggestion, there's a so much learning content buried in the blog. Have you ever thought about creating a featured set on the home page like the Eight Fold Method? The new set can have the 10-15 most referenced/insightful posts to jump start all new readers of the post and reference materials for existing fans.
ReplyDelete-TJ
ET, would you possibly critique this. I got a few loads left in the bin and I think I should be looking at contracting new crop.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/xpnY2ds
Looking forward to TJ's critique as well. Wave 3 is just a bit longer than 100% of wave 1. The EW Oscillator on wave 5 is about to exceed wave 3. I've seen this in other confirmed impulses where wave 5 is extending so I don't think it's breaking any rules. It looks like wave 5 still has room to run, no sign of iv of 5 yet.
DeleteLets see what the expert says. But, what about the 4 months preceding your chart (April 2020 to Aug 2020)? It's some kind of a truncation that left a lot on the table. How would we know in real time that the major down leg has concluded and it's time to get long in this impressive rally since the beginning of your chart?
If your current parallel doesn't work out, this would be the reason why.
Deletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/SPlI6eaM/
That very shallow wave 2 less than 38%, 'should have meant' that wave 1 is the extended wave in the sequence. There is a gap above the market which could fill, too. EWO on a max, and no good sign of a reversal bar, yet.
TJ
@BBR .. also, the purported triangle (while is 'could be' a triangle with lower probability) did not really make triangle proportions. TJ.
DeleteThx so much for the response.
DeleteTJ-
ReplyDeleteNeely makes a parenthetical comment on a strong B wave of a flat that caught my eye -
(for discussion).
https://funkyimg.com/i/3bVaN.png
Yes. I am aware of that.
DeleteThanks. That would suggest reaching the (A)(C) TL, which would be in the area of a 1.13 ext retrace of (D) (exceeding the Mar '20 lows).
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell, I certinly have no problem conceding when I am proven wrong. I had every expectation that price would at least tag 4200 but so far that level proving formidable resistance. I am still counting an imcomplete three with a possible fourth to come so we could still imho see price hit that level before a reversal. I am working on a good charting platform so I could provide some visual context for the ideas of S/R behind my thinking on the prevailing trend. That was a good long term chart from T.J. Still not sure how that proposed cycle degree correction fits into the larger count though. If we completed a super cycle impulse up, I would have expected a similar corrective move to the downside.
ReplyDeleteSPY getting ugly .. watch the low, or it truncated at the high.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/RYIZtwhT/
TJ
A new post is started for the next day.
ReplyDelete