Sometimes a wave count comes easily. Sometimes a count really takes some conjuring!
ES Futures - Hourly - Extended Wave x1 |
Even while I was counting during the heat of the battle I knew we were likely dealing with an extended first wave count x1. But, it was very, very hard to find.
The trick in this case was to think "b" wave. Yes, that failed flat for wave 2 had a very, very long minute ((b)) wave. Then, by the skin of it's teeth, wave 2 overlapped wave 1.
Yet at any of the wave 2 locations (like if you pick the minute ((a)) wave above the current location for 2), then wave 2 is less than a 38.2% retrace. And that means the third wave must be shorter than wave 1. I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it. And that's when the long minute ((b)) wave of 2 came to mind. That minute ((b)) wave is shorter in price and time than wave x1, so it is legal from a degree labeling standpoint.
Further, I was looking for a wave 2 that was longer in time than the prior wave minute ((iv)) triangle - so that minor 2 would raise its hand and say, "hi, uh, hello, I am a higher degree wave". This wave 2 location meets that need. Further we needed wave 3 to be entirely below a line from 0 - 2, and while there are several places on the chart that do this, this one fits the bill.
Third, if you plot the hourly Elliott Wave Oscillator - I will let you do this one - then you will find that the wave three maximum is down near than wave 3, and the EWO is coming back nicely for a fourth wave expanding triangle - which three of us found independently during real time.
But, the wave 4 is quite large, and that most likely means it pairs with wave 2.
I believe the above chart shows that if the wave is to count as an impulse, it must make one more lower low. It turns out that wave 5 can make a new low and remain shorter than wave 3. If not an the invalidation level is back at any wave x1 overlap.
Have a great rest of the weekend,
TraderJoe
THX ET, It has been a real challenge indeed.
ReplyDeleteThanks ET. It requires a significant amount of discipline with EW and that is something that people can learn from you. You have been pointing to a bearish count in the face of an every-so-bullish mainstream and criticisms, and you are proving correct.
ReplyDeleteIf this wave 5 is an extended wave, is there an expectation that the correction should retrace all of it and move to the prior 4?
Yes. And thanks.
DeleteA retrace to circle iv would still be shy of the gap around 3336. Futures gaps, as I believe has been mentioned earlier, usually fill quicker than cash. Would the expectation be that a counter trend retrace fills the gap?
DeleteThe upward futures gap from March 2009 still hasn't filled yet. (Research the ES contract for June 2009, from about March 20 - 24th, 2009). The word 'usually' is used for that reason.
DeleteInteresting ET. Thank you!
DeleteThanks Joe. I have a question about 0-2 trend line (I know that is a guideline)
ReplyDeleteAs you may notice, that wave (iv) is very shallow and did not touch the 0-2 trend line. Is this allowed? The same holds true for 4.
I stated a rule for wave 3, based on the 0 - 2 trend line. And from that you are trying to infer a 'rule' for wave fours. I never stated a rule for wave fours, as that is not how 'alternation' works. There are many cases where wave fours do not break the 0 - 2 trend line; and, yet, there are some cases where it clearly does.
DeleteThank for all your work Joe. Is it possible, that your 3 and 4 waves could be 1-2 of a coronavirus driven rogue 3rd wave wave downward? would it follow the rules as worst case scenario?
ReplyDeleteI just follow the rules for wave counting and don't speculate on theories.
DeleteThanks for the reply. I was wondering if that would be a possible valid, though perhaps way less likely, alternative count, point taken on the theories though.
DeleteI can count 9 down in the SPX futures. If so that expanding triangle could be a "B" and the market would be in process for a wave 2.
ReplyDeleteI remember when I was short during the Brexit decline...funny what a half trillion $ injection can do.
If wave 5 occurs lower, I was thinking it might only be another overnight decline into Sun - Mon/Tues. And although over the weekend I heard Trump 'call' for lower rates I haven't seen any package delivered yet.
DeleteGday ET
ReplyDeleteI was counting the SPX and came to the same conclusion.
About your ES count, your 2nd wave correction is very long in time but extremely short in value (5,25pts)- it ends just above 1. The 2nd wave of lower degree at the start of the decline seems bigger then that... is that not a problem?
sincerely
KAVI
The key there is 'seems'. You have to examine the internals of that wave to see if it is a zigzag, or a flat, or a flat-x-triangle, which shortens the "net distance traveled'. I encourage you to explore it.
DeleteI'm using a 2 hour chart on trading view. Now this is a dangerous market...so i.m ready for anything.
DeleteI hope everyone has seen this story. The reason I mention it, is that it is not even on CNBC's home page, yet:
ReplyDeleteChina PMI data to shock markets
Data on Saturday showed factory activity in China contracted at its fastest ever in February, even worse than during the global financial crisis of 2008. The shockingly weak data is likely to add to fears that the world’s second largest economy may not rebound as quickly as investors had initially hoped.
The report was from Investing.com
TJ
Here is confirmation, and more detail in the actual numbers from ZeroHedge.
Deletehttps://www.zerohedge.com/economics/china-reports-catastrophic-data-manufacturing-non-mfg-pmis-crash-record-lows
These are all-time-records-lows in PMI.
TJ
FYI, the move from circle B to circle C to end 2 should be 5 waves. That move is a zigzag on 1 minute time frame (specifically, from 10:35 am to 12:39 pm on 2/27). Overlap becomes apparent starting on 15 minute.
ReplyDelete..doesn't 'have to be' because the 'whole move' as ((a))-((b))-((c)) can also be perfectly well counted as ((w))-((x))-((y)), and still be a corrective second wave. I'll let you guys debate the internals. But, it is now, 'water under the bridge'.
Deletein my view, this is one of the most important statements that new EW counters should absorb. I spent "years" (I think) getting hung up on a counts trying to find the elusive 5 wave C wave.
DeleteHere was a short primer that opened my eyes and made me reread EW material from a different vantage. I do not know why this one stuck - but it did.
Deletehttps://elliottwave-forecast.com/elliottwave/difference-wxy-abc-structure/
Elliott_Trader, very impressive work. I'm not an EW expert, quite difficult to understand for me a) retrace target after this wave ends and b) longer term correction targets.
ReplyDeleteThank you in advance!
if you want to increase the odds of ET responding, you will need to log-in with a valid email account. He does not often respond to "unknown" users.
DeleteThank you, pbeck, fixed it.
Delete@kv .. thanks for logging in. To calculate the retrace targets 'after' this wave ends, we first need to confirm 'the wave has ended'. My count above shows it may not have. When, or if, a shorter wave 5 is made, then use a standard Fibonacci retrace ruler from high to low, with the high as 100% and the low as 0%. There is nothing magical or weird about this. But, you 'might' look for the level that corresponds with key moving averages at the time, particularly 18-day and 100-day.
DeleteHope this helps.
TJ
Thank you, it does help!
DeleteJust fyi - CNBC finally put the China PMI information on their web-site.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/01/markets-sunday-live-updates-awaiting-stock-futures-open.html
TJ
Joe, thanks for the above reply regarding 0-2 line rule for wave 3. Here I have another question. In your Jan.31 post:
ReplyDeletehttps://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2020/01/careful-about-b.html
You have outlined a path going forward. Given how deep the current drop, would you revise the path or you think the current drop is a of ((b)) and we should start some up move to ATH after c of ((b) down in the next few weeks? The reason I think that is still a possibility is that daily NYAD did not diverge at recent high (but weekly did diverge).
Thanks!
@red. I have posted many daily and weekly charts since. This drop follows the weekly diagonal scenario, so far. Hard to see higher highs. People will just want to try to get out, as far as I can tell now.
DeleteES futures currently down -77.
ReplyDeleteLots of confusion on that last night, if using investing.com
DeleteApparently, their delta used Fri 4:15 to start, then went to 4pm later, causing a 30pt bounce on the quote grids not seen in the live charts.
Just an Idea. I think somebody mentioned the triangle being upside down on Friday.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/JEIu9qX
Zero Hedge ...
ReplyDeleteby Tyler Durden
Sun, 03/01/2020 - 22:29
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Update (2225ET): Well who could have seen that coming? Following The BoJ's promise to do 'whatever it takes' to stabilize the markets (though nothing about the economy of course), the reaction was delayed until someone got the tap on the shoulder to buy with both hands and feet...
NKY Futs are up 900 points from the opening lows...
Dow futures are now up 850 points from the opening lows...
So here, apparently, comes the Fed (well, World CB) pump !
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/UP8XpaS
ReplyDeleteBest I can do on the short term.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/264O8LX
5 minute chart - head and shoulders?
ReplyDeletesorry, I can't seem to get my name to appear through blogger even though it's on default. I'll try to figure that out today.
Deleteif you guys look at the drop of the last friday as end diag. you may get your count right...since then we could be in 4th
ReplyDeleteor B up
Deleteoff my non EW work, I have your 4 up,
Deletethen after fresh lows, then your B wave up.
Unlikely I will be adopting the larger W2 up.
C = A down to follow seems reasonable ATM.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCash nearing 38% retrace at 3061. Looking either like a wxy or expanding diagonal.
ReplyDeleteLooking at something below.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/a/dwkSKQ6
the general pattern is downward counting begins yet only 3 waves down then new highs. on all time frames for 15 months. maybe this time is different.
ReplyDeleteNo evidence of a turn yet.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/4UXpIGS
i have noticed and its a neutral observation ever since there has been an emphasis on counting as per degree relevant most of the counts have been wrong. something to think abt
ReplyDeleteThe bounce of Friday's lows looks like an A of an ABC to me, thus, once complete, expecting a modest pullback, before we get a larger rally to maybe SP 3200 in cash. Then I'd expect last week's lows to get royally challenged in a 5 wave move, for either a correction completing C wave, or a 1929-style mega bear third wave.
ReplyDelete