Monday, April 15, 2024

Into the Real Mess - 3

A lot of people are expecting a wave three to "cut-loose" to the downside now (when some - not necessarily the same ones - were screaming for higher prices before). On the way up. I just urged caution, patience and flexibility, and on the way down - the same. Today ES futures prices DID complete the contracting diagonal from yesterday, and - so far - prices have not invalidated either lower or higher. So, let's give some credit where it was due. We saw whippy behavior, called it, and got it.

But what IF prices do cut loose tomorrow - say with an overnight gap and follow-through lower. This could happen. I am agnostic. But how would one count it? I can see two ways - which still makes this down wave part of the real mess.  Here is the first way: The Truncated Top.


In cash SPY, a contracting diagonal count does not work as well as it does in futures. This suggests the above option of a truncated top, followed by a minute-degree wave , lower. Elliott himself, Prechter following him, and Neely following him all suggested major turns might see a truncation at the top. Then, following minute , there would be a minuet (w), (x) and (y) wave up to the second minute wave, circle-ii, where minuet (y) is a failure wave. It is very important to pay attention to degree labels here, and not think every down wave is a "1" wave when it goes nowhere. 

The problem with the above scenario is that minuet (x) and minuet (i) - which are supposed to be smaller degree waves than minute  are actually longer in time than minute  is with the truncated top. This is not supposed to happen. This is why degree labels are important.

So, if this solution doesn't work, is there one that does? Well, first keep in mind we do have the valid contracting diagonal in the ES futures still on the table, which meets all guidelines in both price & time. And we simply do not know what the overnight and morning will bring yet. But here I think is the better alternate for cash.


As several of us discussed earlier, it is possible to get an expanding diagonal where wave minute-iii, circle-iii, is not completed yet. Notice the following attributes of this count:

  1. The prior wave ends at the prior all-time high, where Minor C, and Intermediate (3) is shown. Then there are "three-wave" sequences downward as zigzags.
  2. Following minute , down, the minuet (a) wave diagonal, down, would be shorter in price & time than all of the minute  wave. Minuet (a) is supposed to be a smaller degree wave than minute , and here it is in both price and time.
  3. Next, notice the minuet (b) wave up. It is shorter than all of minute-ii, circle-ii in price and time. Fantastic, it follows degree definitions, too!
  4. Then, notice sub-minuette i, down. It is shown looking slightly longer than (a), down, right? But that would violate degree label definitions, wouldn't it? YES! That's because the i portion of that wave actually ended at 512.00, and everything else after it in the correction is an expanded flat for sub-minuette ii! So, then degree definitions are not violated.
  5. And so-on goes the minute-iii, circle-iii, wave until it maybe reaches the 1.618 Fibonacci extension - the level of which is shown on the chart.
Folks I simply can not do this every night, wave after wave, adjusting charts which do not consider wave degrees and Fibonacci ratios, so I simply will not. There are too many errors that others can make for me to suggest fixes. I have clearly outlined the problems with degree labeling that most ignore. (Refer to Neely interview if you haven't already at this LINK: Avoid the Top Five Mistakes Counting Elliott Waves.)

I am looking for people who put as much thought into a chart as went into the one above.  Notice "one thing" about the chart immediately above: it gives a clear & specific invalidation level to the count. If your charts do not do that because you don't consider Fibonacci levels or degree definitions then it could seriously hurt your trading also: because a bad wave-count can lead to a bad trade. And the second chart is just an alternate, too. It does not have to be the real deal. But it uses sound rationale and follows the rules, guidelines & degree definitions. So, if it busts it would likely not be because of something we did, but more likely because the Smart Money saw something we did not have access to.

Anyway, have an excellent rest of the evening,
TraderJoe

30 comments:

  1. Been reading here for a few years now. I'm not smart enough to understand most of what you're saying. I'm also not smart enough to learn it. But nonetheless, I am a market participant, and I like reading this blog. Thanks for the insights thus far, always look forward to reading things written by people smarter than I am. Excellent evening to you as well.

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    Replies
    1. Have you read, The Elliott Wave Principle by Frost & Prechter? If not, it is recommended background for understanding wave counts. Best to you. TJ.

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  2. TJ, I think you hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that the SPX waves are influenced by the mag7 and AI stocks,while indexes without count cleaner.
    The Japan and German DAX count are clearer in my view. Both look to be impulsing down. Thanks for all you do on your blog.

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  3. Many thanks TJ for your careful, first-class Elliott Wave analysis! 😊
    You are providing the best market analysis to the world. It is a real service!

    I am not a professional EW analyst: just an ordinary guy, supplementing my income with some trading. But I learn something from each and every one of your posts on this blog. 🫡

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    1. It is more important that you become a competent or even 'expert' wave counter than it is that you become a 'professional EW analyst'. Try not to label things - except waves, maybe. ; )
      TJ.

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  4. ES 4-hr: here's one I just discovered. Contracting diagonal converts to impulse. Requires a lower low before overlap. Not sure it will play out, but in this mess it could.

    https://www.tradingview.com/x/7nXEoLi1/

    TJ

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    1. Wave (v) is four points short of equality with wave (iii) in price, and it must be shorter, so it is. TJ.

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    2. Nice chart TJ. It explains the overlapping initial waves of the decline, along with yesterday's start of a 3rd wave and increase in downward momentum.

      And it shows a much more disciplined approach than us amateurs who always want to count nested 1s & 2s. 😂

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    3. No "deep retrace" noteworthy! 😊

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    4. And if my calculations are correct, this gives us a potential target of 5029.75 - 4916.35 [ES June 2024 contract] for the end of the current 3rd wave.

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    5. in a fractal environment, where there are SUPPOSED to be subwaves for "everything", I'm often puzzled at the notion of extensions. Is this basically, an extended first wave in that impulse? When one speaks of the more common extended third or fifth (or first waves), what is it that makes them extensions versus mere subwaves that are there, whether counted and labeled or not?

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    6. @pedro .. my understanding is that 'only' impulses have extensions. So, while a 'B' wave, or a 'triangle' say have "sub-waves' - which are smaller degree waves than the terminal points of the pattern, they do not have 'extensions', per se. Yet, to the degree they have 'impulses' like the 'a' wave of the larger B wave, then the impulse segments can have smaller degree internal extensions. Further, the concept of an "extension" connotes 'movement beyond equality' so that one of the three motive waves of the impulse will typically be 'extended' beyond equality by sub-waves.

      In sum: not all sub-waves are 'extensions', but every 'extension' has sub-waves.

      Hope this helps,
      TJ

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    7. TY ... "Further, the concept of an "extension" connotes 'movement beyond equality' so that one of the three motive waves of the impulse will typically be 'extended' beyond equality by sub-waves." --- I think this is where extensions make logical sense to contemplate, for me. Longer in price or time. Probably requires after the fact analysis rather than real time. I certainly wouldn't be looking for an extended first wave as a matter of course.

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  5. I'm on the phone but It looks like the EWO is not supportive of the contracting diagonal. Maybe like cash this is 3 of an expanding diagonal here on ES as TJ suggested.

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    1. When I put the 120 candles on the chart, the divergences exist within the diagonal. The values are shown. Further, the EMA-34 hits all the points.

      https://www.tradingview.com/x/3xaSdew8/

      TJ

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    2. Thx, I understand now that on the shorter version, the divergence held. I am also watching a larger expanding option.

      https://imgur.com/zTdxu4w

      I believe degree labeling works.

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    3. I'm not at all taking exception with a larger diagonal. I'm merely saying that this count works at the time being, and it may wind up being easier to deal with overall.

      https://www.tradingview.com/x/VrJCTjtw/

      The red alternate is that it is only minute ⓘ, if I am off by one degree. But that will right itself soon enough. If Minor A got down to 5,078, all that Minor C has to do is get down to below 4,800.

      TJ

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  6. This is my take on the ZB after the covid ending diagonal.

    https://imgur.com/bAMzkDI

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  7. ES 30-min: ES just made a new lower low. TJ.

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  8. I'm not at all taking exception with a larger expanding diagonal. I'm merely saying that this count works at the time being, and it may wind up being easier to deal with overall.

    https://www.tradingview.com/x/VrJCTjtw/

    The red alternate is that it is only minute ⓘ, if I am off by one degree. But that will right itself soon enough. If Minor A got down to 5,078, all that Minor C has to do is get down to below 4,800.

    TJ

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    Replies
    1. In the above, wouldn't the degree labeling be all off? The (ii) and (iv) are larger that the circle 2 and 4.

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    2. Nope, waves can't be counted "backward-in-time", only forward-in-time as they form. TJ.

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    3. Aha! I FINALLY got that Thx to BB's query! 😊

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    4. Tell me cause I am still lost. How is this not a violation when corrective waves of lesser degree are larger than the corrective waves of higher degree. How can you analyze degree labeling if you cant go back in time and check the waves.

      I am confused. This seems like exactly the approach used in the last chart of the post were the waves within (c) of circle iii were compared backwards to the (a) and (b).

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  9. Did we just witness an expanded flat 4th wave in the SPX?

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    1. IF we did, that would provide 'alternation' as well. TJ.

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    2. Interesting how the top of this 4th wave just touched my drawn "base channel" and reversed:
      https://www.tradingview.com/x/6HIZDjOs/
      Sorry about the wave labels and lack of Fibonacci measurements in the chart, TJ! 😅

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  10. Here is the updated c of 3 with alternation as well in the expanding diagonal idea.

    https://imgur.com/lfgxDyH

    Got about 107 candles so far.

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  11. Gold still looks corrective to me after that daily inverted red hammer and this is day two.

    https://imgur.com/uSUJzT6

    Got to run, good evening to all!

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  12. A new post is started for the next day.
    TJ

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