Today, the last trading day of the month, we were following this potential ending diagonal as the futures first traded significantly lower overnight, and then began what seems to be the continual intraday grind.
We cautioned that people should be very careful with this pattern, and when price was below 3,250 at 3,240, we said that a wave ((4)) at 3,250 was possible, but that it was the max. If that price (3,250) was exceeded higher, it could mean that the low was on the prior low. That is how it turned out. Prices shot up into the close as another reader (Tjchuck) had reminded all, that the first of the month - with expected possible inflows - was just around the corned. The result can be seen above.
With about 183 candles on the S&P500 30-minute cash chart, the failure gives us one way to count the five-waves-down into a minute ((i)) wave as follows.
SPX Cash - 30 Minute - Minimum Minute ((i)) |
The failure would have ended only the fifth wave of wave (v) - which is not outrageous for a truncation. The wave itself would not have failed to make a lower low that minuet wave (iii).
But, there is another wave to consider the failure, as well, and that is a part of a running triangle for a wave (iv) still in progress. This might make some sense given the looming election scenario. So, I'll show that with fewer bars on the hourly chart, as below.
SPX Cash - 30 Minute - Larger Minute ((i)) |
This second pattern might provide better alternation between waves (ii) and (iv), so it really is hard to rule it out at this point.
And again, with the election immediately ahead it is best to be patient, calm and flexible at this time.
Have a good start to the evening.
TraderJoe
@Johnny .. your first sentence is confusing. The second chart shows that we ended a ((i)) of ((v)) - to C - today. (iii) and b are both very near 1.618x (i), so there is nothing disproportionate. The problem is your degree symbols are not correct, and so I can't follow your thoughts. You simply 'can not' have 2 of 2 be logical symbols. Please learn the correct degree symbols so we can have a clear conversation.
ReplyDeleteJoe
ReplyDeleteToday at the bottom we had an expanded flat. The ramp at EOD was wave ii of 5th down of 3rd.First Low at 11 am was i and the at 2:50 it was a b wave and c up to finish ii.
I can post the chart but don't want get admonished and chastised for, not knowing the labels. I just don't know how to maneuver those on trading view.
Thanks for all you do. Have a great weekend.
You are talking abt futures or cash
DeleteBoth Sir-
Delete@JohnnyG
ReplyDeleteIf you don't mind, is there anywhere I can contact you to share some thoughts?
I think 3rd will complete by Tue 4pm.( Just a guess based upon wave structure and election timing AND as Joe terms it. "Turn around Tuesday".
ReplyDeleteI am surprised no one considering abc for C leg down of triangle for break out to new high. You guys are looking at negative counts.if elections are one sided for either
ReplyDeleteparty tnat will the market up
Even if its a c wave, It still has to finish its 5 down.
DeleteOk i see your count now
DeleteNQ gave nice ED.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/3FOuZAO
The chart below indicates the wave (iv) as in the second chart to be at the 38.2% retracement level of wave (iii) - which is common. I am still having a problem seeing how the comments above about not being proportional relate. What standard of proportionality are you using?
ReplyDeletehttps://invst.ly/snzpf
TJ
See my post above ET and Johnny
DeleteMaybe (iii) needs to be a bit unproportional, if an extended (v) is looming.
DeleteMy primary count on NDX will do iii of (iii) next week, FAANG index as well
If dems win...think what will the talk of 3 trillion plus infrastructure do to market and if trump wins..there will be a relief rally. The only way this market goes down if things become contentious.
ReplyDeleteAre you asking me Joe?
ReplyDeleteAfter your iv, there was i of 5 down. A,B,C expanded flat to finish ii of v.
It can still go a little higher on Sunday(I wish) or maybe they will open it with a huge gap down.
No, I believe it was JohnnyG who questioned the "proportion".
DeleteSome observations:
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/BjguGLc
We have a couple of open gap areas above us.
DeleteGood work. I like the equating of the futures with cash.
DeleteI don't know, but prob works to discuss here anyways.
ReplyDeleteI'm also pointing things out every now and then, but overall TJ is doing a fantastic work with this blog, and I have learned a ton from him.
I don't think we can move purple iv to black (iv) because purple iv is of a lower degree than black (ii) and if we move it it would be bigger than (ii) which isn't allowed. I agree with you that purple iv is very short, but I believe it's the correct spot, and if you look closer to it it is a flat wave that alternates well with purple ii.
And also when we doesn't have a 1.618 extension within an impulse, and wave 2 is very shallow, It's my understanding that wave 1 often can be seen as the extended wave, the 4 will be very shallow, and the overall impulse will be very "compressed" like a wedge, just like this potential (iii).
Regarding your point 4, I agree with you that we need a count that makes it possible for the market to make a bigger drop next week if it wants to, and I agree with you that we might have finished wave 2 of (v), this is my best try:
https://invst.ly/sn-jc
Degree is ok I believe, alternation is ok, and it also allows for the market to drop in an extend (v) to 1.618 or 2.618 x (1).
So how does this fit with ES? I think It's possible to count a finished triangle (iv) at Fridays close. We have 4 swings around the starting point of the triangel, and it's possible to count zigzags.
https://invst.ly/sn-l2
test
ReplyDeletetest, some of these are blocked excuse the test post
DeleteBlack 3 as labelled is less than 1.618 black 1.
ReplyDeleteI suggest black 3 ended where red 1 is shown, now black 4 pre-election and black 5 after, which may end the whole decline, although black 5 could be the biggest wave.
@JohhnyG .. Your question about degree does not make logical sense. It shows me that you clearly don't 'get' degree yet. Let me ask you a similar question, "how important is a meter?", or "how important is measurement?". Degree is a definition that establishes what fractal scale the count is on. That is all. You are either on, for example, the Minor fractal scale which is 1,2,3,4,5,A,B,C, or you are on the Intermediate fractal scale which is (1),(2),(3),(4),(5),(A),(B),(C), or you are on the minuette fractal scale which is (i),(ii),(iii),(iv),(v),(a),(b),(c), or one of the other pre-defined fractal scales.
ReplyDeleteI have not made these up. Elliott did . They are in such common use that they are defined in the Stockcharts.com "Chart School", and you can review them at this very common reference if you wish. They are also in Prechter, and in Neely.
https://school.stockcharts.com/doku.php?id=market_analysis:identifying_elliott_wave_patterns
You can not mis-type them. You can not have your own way with them. You can not refer to a 2 of 3, or a 2 of v, as you have again and again above, and expect to make sense. It doesn't. Please learn the degrees and what they mean.
On the larger point regarding wave (v) being short. I addressed that in the third chart which shows a 'potential' triangle for an election counts that strings out over several days - until all the votes are in and the court-cases are resolved - and then a larger drop can occur.
TJ
A few observations regarding our recent crude selloff.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/1YvUzCn
@JohhnyG .. re: "The “degree” in contention is the concept that each smaller fractal must be shorter in price and perhaps in time vs the larger degree, which is not commonly agreed upon by EW analysts,". I will say only three things at this point about time to make the case: 1) you can not have something that is 'actually' larger, and 'call' it smaller because you want it to be; 2) For example, Elliott used the "minute" degree to reflect he was working on the 'hourly' chart. So, to be both facetious and illustrative about it, you simply can not have a wave that lasts a year, and yet call it a minute wave in terms of 'time'. 3) If you break the definitions, then where do you stop? And, if you break the definitions, aren't you being 'arbitrary'? Who's flexibility do you allow, and who's flexibility don't you allow?
ReplyDeleteThat's all I will write on this topic at this time. Think it over.
TJ
Tj you have barrier triangles can have D exceed B. Why cant the count in futures be a barrier triangle. It certainly is not 3 of 5 down. Could be a truncation or a barrier triangle
ReplyDeleteMy smaller triangle invalidated so I think TJ did call the bottom, but I think the correct count is this
ReplyDeletehttps://tvc-invdn-com.akamaized.net/data/tvc_46b3fcf910365a0edae318db64ec7082.png
This count have alternation in c, and (i) is the biggest kick on the chart.
Can't really believe I didn't see it as an alternate before, but well done TJ
https://tvc-invdn-com.akamaized.net/data/tvc_a29a3cc37d19fbe7b0fe007ffa7b2923.png
While I was clearly looking upward today in one of two scenarios, the upward wave has gone beyond the initial triangle limits in the overnight. So, we must allow that wave (iv) could become a longer more complex wave, in time. Perhaps it can even be a larger triangle. Again, a triangle could not be demonstrated until or unless all five waves are in place. With wave (ii) being a Flat, it is 'also possible' for wave (iv) just to be a simple sharp - zigzag - wave.
ReplyDeletehttps://invst.ly/somyi
There is now much better alternation within wave wave ii and iv of (iii), which is good. New readers should note how price is swinging pretty wildly around the 1.618 extension of wave (i), and this is fairly common.
TJ
Thanks Joe.That chart looks much better to me.
DeleteIt seems that some of my posts doesn't get through..am I blocked or something?
DeleteI'll try with this one
https://invst.ly/sopv7
Also fascinating that the fourth wave of 3 formed the same pattern (expanded flat) as the higher degree second wave.
DeleteHello Trader Joe,
ReplyDeleteI agree with fibonacci concerning an abc or abcde count in which case we could go on to make new highs. No need to get overly bearish here.
If interested, couple of observations -
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/3Wd2y08
With approximately 178 candles on the chart, according to The Eight Fold Path Method on the ES 2-Hr chart, the Elliott Wave Oscillator looks to be providing the characteristic wave (iv) signature, and wave (iv) can be done, as a flat.
ReplyDeletehttps://invst.ly/sosrv
If red (i) is the end of the expanding diagonal, then there is alternation. If not, then there does not appear to be.
TJ
Appears the Daily ES-mini Slow Stoch. could embed today.
ReplyDeleteThere is a new post started for the next day.
ReplyDelete