... you just keep on counting.
On Wednesday's post we showed the possibility of a fourth wave triangle using The Eight Fold Path Methodology as indicative of a fourth wave in progress. If you did not read that post, then you may wish to review it now. But essentially with 140 candles on the chart, the Elliott Wave Oscillator had gone below the zero line, indicating a likely fourth wave in progress.
The triangle played out on Friday, and we also indicated in the comments on Thursday, as follows.
"A reminder that today is the last trading day of the month - which often
sees 'sloppiness' which is sometimes termed 'window-dressing'. Then,
tomorrow is the the first trading day of the new month which 'often',
not always, sees inflows from 401k's, mutual funds, pension funds,
company bonuses, dividend reinvestment and other sources. However,
according to the Briefing.com Economic Calendar, tomorrow is not a
payroll employment report day."
So, Thursday was the sloppy end-of-the-month window-dressing day, and Friday did provide the often expected inflows. Here is the unchanged, but updated, chart using The Eight Fold Path Method on the minute ((c)) wave.
S&P500 Cash Index - Hourly - The Eight Fold Path Method |
So, the triangle completed on Friday, with the expected e:3 wave overlap of the wave (iii) as required. The triangle is shown in brown in the upper right of the hourly chart. That means that wave (iv) is likely completed as we were able to count a five-wave sequence up at the end of the day on the five-minute chart. You can view that smaller chart at this LINK.
Given that wave (iv) is completed, then a new trend line should now be drawn from wave (ii) to wave (iv). That new "Applicable Trend Line" is shown on the chart in black and labeled as such. Any impulsive break of this trend line, lower, and failed back test should at least put the market into corrective mode if not full-on down trend mode.
But first, the end of wave (v) must be found. The first five waves up shown in the chart at the above link are likely wave i of (v). Space should be given for a wave ii, down, followed by a iii, iv, and v, up. OFTEN, not always, the typical triangle target is "the widest width of triangle added to the break out point". I'm going to let you do the math on that one as an exercise to see if you have any interest at all in wave analysis or you just want to continue to receive "free stuff".
Meanwhile, above the prices at specific points you can note some very small red arrows pointing downwards. Those red arrows show how tiny their fifth waves were compared to their first waves. Here I am referring to the unlabeled v of (i), and v of (iii).
This being the case, it would not be out of the realm of reason to expect that a shorter-than-typical fifth wave could occur. So, be aware that a (v) = (i) might not be expected.
Here are a couple of additional points of reference. The first is the now familiar daily chart with the Fisher Transform indicator that still shows divergence.
SP500 Cash Index - Daily - Fisher Transform Still Diverges |
And the second chart is the daily S&P500 cash index along with it's Chaikin Money Flow indicator. Readers should be able to see the divergence - even if higher prices occur.
S&P500 Cash Index - Daily - Chaikin Money Flow Diverges |
So, from this chart, the volume is also starting to 'bail-out' on the rally too. This does not mean that further highs are not possible. It does mean that the rally is beginning to run out of support from volume.
There is one additional "third leg of the stool" that I would like to see fall in place, and that is sentiment-related. Perhaps it will by Tuesday of next week. If it does, I will let you know.
Have a good start to the weekend.
TraderJoe
Some divergences also on other Volume Indicators
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/a/rvfhZKf
Did they make their job on the October ATH?
Did they make their job on then 24th December low?
Thanks TJ. Here's my math.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/cx6evDj
Nice job! (...and OR less!).
DeleteCheers TJ.
Deletehi joe thank you for your work
ReplyDeletecould you put the numbers on the chart since September?
a big thank-you
Still putting the number 2, by the minute ((c)) wave in the upper right hand corner of the first chart until there is more information.
DeleteJoe, your running b:3 up to 2813 is 1.93% the length of the prior a:3. Is there a limit on the length of a wave like that? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteYes, it may not be larger than the one higher degree label, by degree labeling considerations. But, per Neely, when b:3 exceeds 1.618 times the length of a:3, there is virtually 'no chance' that the c wave will come down to exceed the a:3 wave. And, you can see in this case that he was correct again on this point. The c wave down 'did not' exceed the a:3 wave low. A "running wave", aka a "running triangle" in this case was indeed formed.
DeleteThank you for all of the information, Joe. It took a long time to put together, I'm sure.
DeleteThanks also for answering this question about Wave b of the triangle. I had been puzzling over that for the last day or two.
Thanks Joe!
ReplyDeleteThis triangle took more time than ((B)), is this ok?
Welcome. Yes, the comparison is still with (ii) until five waves up are completed. After a completed ((c)) wave up, it would be a problem.
DeleteOk so any internal leg of (iv) can’t be bigger than (ii)? Not sure what you mean with after a completed ((c)) it would be a problem? Thanks
DeleteNice catch Eric B, I had missed that measure. First (v) to complete and see if that yields any additional information but then potential problems.
DeleteVery interesting.
Trying to be anticipatory and run some scenarios (just thinking out loud)
1) lengthen the duration of B to where (ii) ends does not work because it does not cross A (at 2675) - plus you would not expect a triangle in (ii) position.
2) An impulse count does not work off the Dec bottom because we do not have the 1.62 wave extension anywhere
3) If you try to use a diagonal count off the Dec bottom and use this triangle as a (iv) then that would yield a very large 5 up for ((A)) with not a lot of room for a ((B)) & ((C)) to end before eclipsing ATH
Next week will be interesting
4) If I try to use Friday's 5 up as a failed 5th of C of potential 2 of Diagonal count down, you would still have the problem of (iv) larger than ((B)).
DeleteJoe, Erik asks an excellent question, and your reply seems to be wholly inconsistent with everything you have preached about degree violations in the last couple of years. By definition, waves (ii) and (iv) of ((c)) are of lower degree than the prior wave ((b)), so it should follow that it's impossible for either (ii) or (iv) to be larger than the prior ((b)). Therefore, if the current count shows wave (iv) to be larger than ((b)), then that count can not be correct. Right?
DeleteNope, as far as I can tell, the minuet (iv) would have to larger than a minute ((iv)). You are confusing issues.
Delete@Erik ..In counting the second impulse the wave (iv) is allowed to be longer in price and time than the wave (ii) because they are of the same degree. Kindly remember, in counting a-b-c, we are not counting a wave that is an 'extension'. In other words, the waves are not claimed to be getting larger by smaller degree sub-divisions within a wave. The two cases are markedly different.
DeleteThanks that makes sense!
DeleteJoe, now I'm getting very confused. You're saying that the degree violation rule for a wave (iv) can only apply to a prior wave ((iv)), and not to a prior wave ((b)), but in the past you have said that the length of a running wave (b) can not exceed the length of a prior wave ((i)) or ((iii)). This makes no logical sense to me. If a (iv) can't be compared to the prior ((b)), then why can a (b) be compared to a prior ((i)) or ((iii))?? Also, can a wave (iv) of ((iii)) be measured against the prior wave ((ii))?? If the answer is yes, then it makes no sense that a (iv)of ((c)) would not also be measured against the prior ((b)). Thanks.
DeleteI have provided the answer above. Stop badgering me. Read it and understand it.
DeleteJoe, thanks for the clarification on how corrective waves are different than motive waves.
DeleteAnd, as far as I can tell, using the ES four-hour futures there are 48 bars in minute ((b)), and only 40 bars in minuet (iv). Charts below.
Delete48 Bars for ((b))
https://invst.ly/a6sm5
40 Bars for (iv)
https://invst.ly/a6ssy
So I have no idea how this fracas got started.
Yes sorry for the confusion, I was meassuring cash with 47 bars for (iv) and 40 for ((b)) hourly bars
DeleteJoe, it got started because in the cash, (iv) is longer than ((b)).
DeleteDegree validation is best done on futures because they trade prices cash does not, and trade hours cash does not. End of my discussion on this topic.
Deletegoal of the end of wave c (V) ????
ReplyDeletehow many days will it last and how far can it go ???
the questions to ask
thank you joe for your work
See Billy's reply, above, and the link to his chart.
DeleteThe futures have opened up above the high of the triangle, proving out the triangle in every detail.
ReplyDeleteJoe, my notes did not include a guideline that a Wave 4 triangle is proved when the presumed subsequent Wave 5 moves above (below) the high (low) of the triangle. I have added this to my notes.
DeleteSince SPX had a 5-wave move up on 3/1, what would you label the spike in futures? Or do we need more information from the cash market first? Thank you.
Futures validated futures. Cash 'should' make the higher high too. But, at some point a truncation is possible.
DeleteCash made the higher high too.
Delete10 stocks in the IBD leader board hit new 2019 highs on Friday. However, four of the top 42 are not doing well at all. Plus, 7 more of the 42 are showing signs of stalling and rolling over.
ReplyDeleteWondering if last moves on friday were a barrier triangle. Than we completed 1 of ed on the overnight.
ReplyDeleteThere should not be an ed immediately following a triangle, except as a smaller degree v as the patterns are 'cousins' and it would be poor alternation.
DeleteThanks, did not channel well as abc either.
Delete3 of 3 characteristics here.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThe number of quasi triangle and ED patterns we have been seeing is nothing short of stunning. I remember reading as essay on wave personalty that described triangles and EDs as patterns that emergege when an impending trend change faces fierce bullish or bearish
resistance.
Best I can do.
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/Db8NLeO
So, we know that wave v, below, must be shorter than wave iii, and can truncate.
ReplyDeletehttps://invst.ly/a6uga
TJ
Downward overlap in cash; truncation likely where shown!
DeleteLikely truncation and overlap
Deletehttps://invst.ly/a6up8
TJ
ET, Great Call. Why were you expecting a truncation?
DeleteI'm using a slightly different count which has no degree violations in the cash. I have (iv) of ((c)) as a running flat that ended at 2775 last Wednesday, and then an expanded ED wave (v) from there to this morning's high. DOW, RUT, and NYA all failed to make higher highs this morning, and NYMO failed to get back above zero.
ReplyDeleteSince it's very unusual to have a truncated wave following a running wave, then the alternate is that ((c)) ended at 2813 on 2/25, and 2775 was (a) and this morning's high was (b).
yeah, right .. a) except the pattern is not expanding by trend lines on a cash 30-minute chart, whereas the triangles trend lines are contracting, b) you didn't call the pattern out in advance, and c)you did not suggest a higher high would be made out of the pattern like the triangle did. In short, you are "Monday morning quarter-backing".
DeleteET pointed out how short the fives have been and dow is really weak. That may be it.
ReplyDeleteWhat if (d) is today's high? And this is (e)?
ReplyDeletewould have to be expanding triangle (rare) and c never went lower than a to validate.
DeleteYou have two half-hourly candle closes above 2,813 which pretty much rules out the (d) wave of a barrier triangle. Not 'impossible' on a larger time scale, but much less likely.
DeleteAnd, then, the wave (iv) triangle would really risk being a degree violation in cash (too many bars, too much time).
DeleteIf the whole move from Dec. is a zigzag, then A=328.89, C should be equal, should it not? Only 55.3% of A at today's high measured from end of triangle.
DeleteNot at all. C = A is only one commonly described possibility.
DeleteWe get dow e wave cross and up move would be in severe jeopardy.
ReplyDelete/ym busted e
ReplyDeleteIts early, Would be nice to get outside daily reversal bar.
DeleteMarket is acting more impulsively, lower.
ReplyDeleteMeasurement now shows this is the most impulsive downward wave we've had since the triangle.
Deletehttps://invst.ly/a6v7o
TJ
DOW has outside range bar down, and loss of daily embedded slow stochastic at this point.
DeleteOutstanding analysis Joe thanks comments regarding truncation!
ReplyDelete/ Erik..don't know how I got signed out lol
Deletethanks Erik!
Deletee waves gone
ReplyDeleteBelow ES 2,779 then the ES loses all possibility of an ending contracting diagonal (instead of the triangle); just lost it!
ReplyDeleteDOW has SMA-18 at 25,683; low so far, 25,690.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMessed up this morning seeing those two /ES EDs down, should have known it could not be an abc with two diagonals in the same degree.
ReplyDeleteThat one is now taped to a screen for a while. :)
Here is my f up. Thinking that the two diagonals were abc. Two diagonals in the same degree to finish a small retrace after a truncation was not good odds.
Deletehttps://imgur.com/r8uhgga
Yes the highs were very messy, not only on the Wall Street indices, but one must suspect the unexpected. I was distrustful of the action post the weekly futures gap up and still cannot reconcile the high in the DAX futures satisfactorily in EW terms but the non-EW evidence suggests strongly the "high is in".
DeleteHigh came on the second 5 minute candle of the week. Trading has been heavy ever since. Appears to be a top (everywhere). Hong Kong was the star performer early but now off 1.75%. The market has offered only a very small time window of opportunity to "change sides" with ES now down 38 handles in quick order since the cash open and YM down 450 since the high of the week. Those trapped above will be praying for a decent bounce.
ReplyDeleteWith the lower low, can now count "five down" from the truncation high; Could still go lower. DOW has broken the SMA-18.
ReplyDeleteHere's a chart of the five-waves-down.
Deletehttps://invst.ly/a6vnz
TJ
little ES Triangle?
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/6gFKHKa
DeleteNo, but diagonal fifth or b wave of flat second wave is possible.
Deletehttps://invst.ly/a6w9u
TJ
.382 retrace is bottom triangle TL
DeleteOn a 5 min chart there is a classic Bollinger Band bottom confirming the ed for 5. Note the momentum low on the 12:15 bar which tags the lower band and then a lower low which finishes well above the lower band at 1:05. This pattern is the one that John Bollinger views as the most reliable.
DeleteThx for the reply ET. A 50% marker ends up in the 3 of 3 area.
DeleteSo we had triangles and some major failures to even make new highs and some minor failures in the 5 of 5 coming out of the triangles. IMHO, thinking about much of a retrace here may be asking a lot.
ReplyDeleteWho thinks Avi Gilburt makes accurate counts?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-stock-market-hasnt-topped-yet-according-to-elliott-wave-theory-2019-03-04?siteid=rss&rss=1
very accurate, one of them is always right
DeleteAvi is one of the best out there, imho...
DeleteDecisive fill of BOTH open gaps on the FIRST wave down rings register for my signature "leverage unwind" profile.
ReplyDeleteI never fully commit unless and until I see it....
joe is there a possibility your "proved" triangle is part of an expanded flat which bottomed today?
ReplyDeleteA true expanded flat has a lot lower target, does it not?
Deletecorrect. i see. thanks.
DeleteDespite the wave counts that suggest a top is in breadth, as per the daily tick at 10 min and 30 min, is not in agreement as it is leading the market higher on this bounce. Hmmm.
ReplyDeleteExpanded diagonal from 2783?
ReplyDeletei c it and died at mid channel
DeleteMaybe as a C
Deleteup move real close to equal time as down.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteawful mess off the bottom and as ET would say "turning to the right"
DeleteFascinating!
ReplyDeleteHow many ways are there to interpret an impulsive move such as we have seen from the massively over-bought and steeply bearish divergences we have been seeing in this market for some time now?
Fascinating!!
Its because the top was not a clear count
DeleteThis is what I see as of the end of the day, primarily because of Neely's guideline that a line from 0 - 2 should not cut off part of wave 3 (on the way up of 'a').
ReplyDeletehttps://invst.ly/a6xof
TJ
Upward price has not retraced 62% yet.
DeleteFrom the weekend gap up highs the ES retrace into the close was 52% with the YM at only 40%. DAX futures, which had a very strong Thursday/Friday and also made its rally high on the second 5 minute candle this week, fell 1.5% to the low of the day and has only managed to reclaim 28% on the afternoon recovery. Although Wall Street is set up for a 3rd or C wave down we'll have to wait and see what tomorrow brings.
ReplyDeleteA new post has been started for Monday.
ReplyDelete