Market Indexes: Major U.S. Equity Indexes closed lower
SPX Candle: Higher High, Higher Low, Lower Close - Doji Candle
FED Posture: Quantitative Tightening (QT)
Yesterday, on the daily ES futures, we said that since the close was over the SMA-18, that the market had a positive bias. Some disagreed, promptly entered shorts, and had their stops hit as the market did make a fresh new high today. They told us how pointless wave counting seemed. It was better to use their trades. I have sympathy for them. Many times I have felt like wave counting is difficult at best - almost useless - until about five years ago when a number of concepts just began to 'click'. More about that later.
The new high was enough to create a 1.618 extension on a prior wave in the futures, and be high enough for a third wave, by measurement, and then some. It was also high enough to cross that "thin red line" we showed yesterday.
Here is the hourly chart of the ES E-Mini S&P500 Cash Index futures showing the current count of an impulse upward. The 1.618 Fibonacci extension from wave ((1)) to ((3)) is shown.
ES E-Mini S&P500 Cash Index Futures - Hourly - Likely Impulse In Progress |
The wave locations shown are the only locations that allow counting without degree violations in the futures. There was a triangle for wave (iv) of ((1)), and there was an expanding diagonal for the c wave of (iv) of ((3)). Wave (iii) of ((3)) must have ended where shown or otherwise the longer wave to b would create a degree violation. That's ok. It made a flat wave to alternate with it's sharp (ii) wave of ((3)), and wave (iv) took more time than wave (ii), as well.
During the day, we gave guidance that IF cash crossed below the mid-point of the channel only then could one assume a corrective wave was underway. Futures broke the channel, cash never did : it was only a pull-back not one of the significant corrective waves. Still it provides a 'marker'.
Now, if wave ((2)) in the futures is a sharp, then wave ((4)) could either be a Flat or Triangle, with the flat preferred. That means price could go over the highs again.
According to the SMA-18, the bias remains positive, and the SMA-18 should provide some support to downward movement. The Hourly futures seem to be following The Eight Fold Path Method at this point, and the divergent high should be indicating wave (v) of ((3)) based on the EWO. We would expect the EWO to come back down towards the zero line at the end of wave ((4)), if it occurs as expected.
The day ended on an hourly bearish engulfing candle. There should at least be three waves down to start a flat or a triangle. The third wave likely also ended on an RSI divergence, a MACD divergence, and a volume divergence.
Have a good start to your evening.
TraderJoe
Joe, good stuff! Are you short at 3? Or waiting for 4 to go long?
ReplyDeleteAdam, please see this post; copy & paste link if needed. Paraphrase of Ira Epstein's Rules for Trading
Deletehttps://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2015/11/paraphrase-of-ira-epsteins-rules-for.html
I offer no advice on trading or investing. Ira Epstein is a broker. It's different for him.
Joe, good read thanks.
DeleteIt's unfortunate that you don't post your trades but I respect that. All I'm trying to say is that as of Tuesday your bias by your nightly post was still down. Your Wednesday post you had either a neutral bias or a down bias. Where would you have gone long? And if you did would you really make any money? My point with Elliott Wave is that once you have a confirmation, be it positive or negative and you enter a trade, you end up missing most of the advance, or decline anyways.
I think it's useful in ways don't get me wrong but I don't think you could trade it. Well at least not in the short term.
Adam, Read some of Dr Alexander Elder. https://www.elder.com Also Bill Williams books.
DeleteAdam .. I can tell by your questions you are seeking guidance on entering trades and becoming more profitable doing so. That is not the purpose of this blog. I will ask you to consider that you are just about 5 years removed in experience from where I was about 5 years ago. I ask you to hold on for a while. It will 'gel'; I think many of the readers here are beginning to see the value.
DeleteSince I have been where you have been - I have walked in your shoes. Go easy. There are many, many concepts yet ahead of you.
One key point in Elliott wave counting is, if a set-up doesn't go as expected or as counted, count the other way! Quickly!
All I did was mis-count a very, very messy bottom. It was a diagonal C at the bottom and not the beginning of an expanded flat. I am at peace with that. I have to make peace with some waves in 5 minutes. Lol!
Thanks Joe
DeleteSo was it an error on your part missing the diagonal C? Like you broke an EW rule or something?
Not really. Just an alternate. Pittsburgh_Tom asked me during the trading day, "what if prices broke through the X channel. What would I say then?" I said I would consider the bottom as C. I could see a diagonal possibility there. But diagonals are a bit more rare than flats. This one wasn't.
DeleteCan I ask, what would you think of a post like this one?
https://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2018/10/topping-process-underway.html
Not sure what you are asking me but it looks similar to other posts of yours. I like when you have a main count and an alternate. I would probably like it if you said here would be a good place to go long based on x, y z.
DeleteBut again, I think you do very good work and I'm not critiquing you.
I like your EW just bc it gives me a road map and can give me reaffirmation about trades I'm in or about to take on. It's good in that regard for me.
Lol. What if someone took their own advice on 10/1 and was just 'sitting' and had to do 'nothing' now, except count waves?
DeleteDid I say that on 10/1? I'm not getting what you are after?
DeleteWhat is the title of the 10/1 post? What are all of the subsequent posts about?
DeleteBased on changes in OI I moved my stop to 276.5. Not something I would normally do but I see a triangle pattern on the hourly as well, with the potential for this whole week's advance to be canceled out next week. My draw down will be 25% if I'm stopped out with the potential for a 300% gain so I'll take the risk
ReplyDeleteI rarely post here and never post a trade but I did last night. With that said, this trade is short term an a hedge to a larger position SPY call I have that I bought around 268 but that extends out to February where I am looking for SPY 287 to be hit (at least)
I won't post a trade again but since I did, mine as well say what my hold trade is as Joe was clearly mentioning me in his nightly post.
Edit: hourly close above SPY 277.5 as stop
DeleteJoe thanks for the good work. I've also struggled with EWT and trading but with your work beginning to see some very useful setups. Also will look at your link above I'm sure it will give me some other insite. Thanks again
ReplyDeleteWelcome. Insight.
DeleteI'm going to have to scrap the expanded flat idea, the current rally has just gone to far for that to be in consideration. Is there a limit to how large in magnitude a C wave can be in relation to A wave in a flat/expanded flat?
ReplyDeleteThank you.
2.62 * A was it. That's when I scrapped it.
DeleteGreat work Joe! I am long and staying the course for now
ReplyDeleteThanks for saying about the work, Jay. But the trading decisions are yours and yours alone.
DeleteI can only speak for myself. I very much like that this blog is about the how and why. Based on my experience, EWT / charting is one skill and trading is a whole other skill set. Trading creates bias - that is my learning.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to hearing when and how it "clicked" for you. I can say that I have not reached that point yet even after years of reading about EWT (EWI and others) and attempting to apply - and then reviewing what I missed. I feel like I am getting closer now and I hope that adding the concept of degree accelerates my accuracy and pace of understanding.
Let me rephrase by saying that I understand trading and consistently making money is the ultimate goal but I find that trading introduces emotion and therefore bias. I am hoping that focusing on the mechanics and pattern recognition removes some of the emotion and therefore will improve my trading.
DeleteThat is a magnificent comment. I hope others will hear it and take it to heart!
DeleteA recent example is our communication about the W4 overlap of the expanded flat b wave of W2. I did not realize that was a guideline and still cannot find much information on it. I had always been following the rule of W4 cannot overlap W1.
DeleteJoe, the (iii) of ((3)) length that would have caused a degree violation. That was comparing it to (iii) of 1 - correct? I need to go back and reread the weekend post from several weeks back to make sure I have this committed to memory.
DeleteNo, its that all the subwaves of ((3)) must be less in price and time than ((1))....I have got to get better tools to help me count time.
DeleteYes. That's it pbeck.
DeleteET, I notice we are hitting resistance of the 200 day ma and balance line. We may not break fractal at 2815... Need more time
ReplyDeletethanks joe.
ReplyDeleteI was pretty confident were in a 3/3 yesterday and was also confident you would find impulse in that whole W1 mess. it seems that we have a bit more clarity now. maybe we finish 5 up after beginning of month cash flow inflows....
Yes, you were. And once again it helped me out, and seemed reasonable. Kudos!
Deletejoe. the 4th wave has to be longer in time than the lower degree so
ReplyDelete1) that is valuable information as we measure along
2) should mean 4th wave finishes late tomorrow at earliest...
correct?
'Should be'; not always. 'Most often'.
Deleteand
ReplyDeletei think a subwave of wave 3 of wave 1 (not labeled but identifiable) is longer in time than wave 3 of wave 3. is it violation?
No. (iii) of ((1)) and (iii) of ((3)) are of the 'same degree'. One is not trying to make one a sub-wave of the other. In other words: once wave one ((1)) is set, then all the sub-waves of ((3)) must only be shorter in price and time than all of ((1)). And (ii) of ((3)) must be shorter in price and time than ((2)), only.
DeleteThanks for this clear comments on degree violation. Uncovers a lot of mess.
Deletei was talking about ((iii)) of (iii) of ((1)) so its not same degree. its not labeled on chart but inferred
ReplyDeleteQuestion makes no sense. What are you trying to make ((iii)) of (iii) a sub-wave of?
Deleteand also what about wave 5? all its subwaves less than (1 or 3)? if 3 shorter than 1 then all subwaves have to be a fraction of 3, but if 3 is longer than 1 are the subwaves of 5 limited by wave 1 or wave 3? im guessing 3.
ReplyDeleteAnd after wave 4 is done and we are in wave 5 at that point the wave 4 sets a limit on the subwave 4 in wave 5?
sorry if im asking too many questions. things really starting to click...
Marc, I re-evaluated the reply to this one.
Delete1. The shortest prior wave of higher degree,
2. The sub-waves of 5 have nothing to do with 4. Only with 3 or 1, whichever is shorter.
In no case can a sub-wave of say, Minor 5, be longer than Minor 1. That would again be saying that a minute wave would be longer than a Minor wave, and that can not be the case.
Sorry for the initial confusion.
thanks. i was referring to wave 4 and the wave 4 within wave 5. the other questuon i will revisit next tome i see it in charts and hopefully we can have a meeting of minds
ReplyDeleteStepping back to a 2Hr chart and looking at the larger picture in the context of the double zigzag. From the bottom of Minute((1)) we have minuette(w)up to 2815. minuette(x) down did not reach the 90% retrace so minute((ii) can not be a flat. Since we are now probably in a of minuette(y) it leaves me wanting to figure out how minuette (y) will unfold. Can it just exceed (w) by a small amount and technically be a double zigzag that just looks like a flat? My thinking is that in order to get a better handle on (y) up we need a to finish, see how deep b is and then look for a Fib relationship between c and a. Am I on the right track with this?
ReplyDeleteYes. The real question is whether c of (y) will be an ending diagonal or whether b will be a triangle to indicate 'last wave dead ahead'.
DeleteTo Adam Wirth:
ReplyDeleteI was reading some of your earlier posts and was afraid that since it's so long after that if I posted above you might not see this, so I'm posting here.
Judging from some of your comments I think you are probably a more sophisticated trader than I am but I wanted to share a few things. EWT as Joe indicated is not really a trading system that provides entries and exits so don't think of it that way. For every count there is almost always at least 1 alternate count. EWT will help you evaluate probabilities within which you can use your trading signals. As Joe so wisely pointed out, once a count proves to be something other than what you were set up for it's imperative to get out quickly and re-evaluate.
I have been on other sites where they let Elliott wave rule their emotions. I lost a lot of money on these sites. What I love about this site is that Joe is teaching us the correct way to count Elliott wave and it is up to us to incorporate that in our trading Style. I love the fact that he is always methodical and shows alternates but also admits when he makes a mistake. I have learned so much over the last year and it has helped my Trading because it is showing me the possibilities. I used to make a lot of mistakes early in counts and I have really learn to be patient and wait for the right set-up. I'm finally starting to get some of the concepts and I don't think I would have gotten them had it not been for this site. Thanks Joe and I can't wait for your book!
ReplyDeleteJoe,
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing all of your learning. I asked before, and you said you would address this later. But I need to ask again (because learning this in bits and pieces as the occasion may come up is hard):
What text can I buy that presents all of the degree guidelines and violations cohesively?
For instance, you wrote above: "once wave one ((1)) is set, then all the sub-waves of ((3)) must only be shorter in price and time than all of ((1)). And (ii) of ((3)) must be shorter in price and time than ((2)), only"
That's great to know, and I could continue to read your blog and copy and paste all of the gems like this you post into a file. Perhaps in a year or two I might have a coherent batch of rules and guidelines with respect to degree guidelines and violations.
Or, could you just tell us the underlying text(s) that present this knowledge in an organized way so we can follow your posts more easily?
Or, maybe other experienced commenters on this blog could name the source materials if Joe is too busy?
In any case, I appreciate all of the knowledge you and others share in the posts and comments. Thank you.
At this time, I can only say the basis for this work on degree is this interview with Glenn Neely. Avoid the Top 5 Elliott Wave Mistakes.
Deletehttps://www.neowave.com/interviews/interview-201710.asp
The interview is about 35 minutes. Listen to it all. I do not agree with all of Neely's extensions to EW, but I do agree with most of this interview. He talks about degree starting right at the beginning.
Thank you very much, Joe. If you or others happen to think of additional sources of information regarding degree guidelines and violations in the level of detail that you present, I am very interested.
DeleteAgain, thank you for sharing all that you've learned.
Kelly, I posted before but I'll do it again. Bill William's is good. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0471119296/ref=olp_page_1?ie=UTF8&f_all=true
DeleteI paid $7 used new looking library book. So prices change often. His 2nd and 3rd books are good as well. Dr Elder is also recommended, pay attention to the 13 ema. Elder is know for force index, bull bear power, Williams is know for Fractals, Alligator, AC and AO (EWO) indicators. Trading view is fine and free I think. (using pro paid here) Many other good authors right now reading Connie Brown's books. Main thing is having open mind and taking your time to read practice and learn. Good Luck!
Thanks, Bill. Sorry, if you posted that link in the last month or so, I never saw it.
DeleteI'm looking for an underlying source that contains the rules and guidelines that Joe uses which go beyond EWI's. Clearly the fine details of Joe's method include degree guidelines and EWO interaction that EWI doesn't cover. I'll take a look at the Williams book. Since I'm on a limited budget, I need to maximize my expense efficiency.
I really appreciate you replying. Thanks again.
On the hourly futures chart from last night, a wave ((4)) is already longer than a wave ((2)) in 'time', as is the usual case. Further, futures prices are now attacking the lower preliminary Elliott trend channel line, when the channel top line is drawn from ((1)) to ((3)), with a parallel copy placed on ((2)).
ReplyDeleteThe Elliott Wave Oscillator on the futures is now below the zero line as was suggested last night.
None of this is yet in the cash market, so we'll see if it occurs there too.
If wave ((4)) forms properly in cash, then the channel will get re-drawn from ((2))) to ((4)) with a parallel copy on ((3)).
Deletecash 10 mins tells us impulse done
Deleteunless running triangle about to complete....
Deletejoe, fwiw, i'm unable to fully reconcile impulse in cash, and using ewo, i have issues with the action around the second wave of third wave. We need long first wave because of big 3/3 but in cash doesnt look right with ewo. When i read post i thought it was 80% probable for impulse to develop but i think may be 50/50 it was abc up.
DeleteBuilding 4th wave triangle?
ReplyDeleteMost likely..
DeleteWierd, maybe WXY with Y as the small triangle and the spike is 5. Trying to watch and measure
DeleteDoes the spike just need to clear 3 or clear over X? I think just over 3
DeleteCash is trading below the mid-line of the cash channel shown two days ago. Any intraday lower cash low would likely signify the correction is underway.
ReplyDeleteTriangle in small throw under. Make or break point.
ReplyDeleteLooks like lift off.
ReplyDeleteLooks like a of y is an impulse finishing with an ED for 5 of 5
ReplyDeleteED no longer valid
Deleteif you are following joe we are counting now 5 up (on small time frame) from end of triangle to end impulse. we are probably in 3. When we have 5 up it will be 1 of 3 up for Wave 2 to finish. I think its pretty straightforward his count. nice work.
DeleteMark, Do you mean a of a-b-c (rather than1 of 1-2-3 to finish y of minute ii?
Deleteyes
DeleteDisappointment over the weekend at the G-20 to cause a gap down Monday to kick off Subminuette b?
ReplyDeletethat b wave can start and finish in 1 day i believe... if joes count is accurate...
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWell I suppose it could but b waves are notorious for being complex and taking up time. b waves are phonies designed to confuse things. Not usually straight forward.
ReplyDeletebelow 2751 overlaps wave 1 and confirms impulse over
ReplyDeleteLooks like 1 more high to finish
DeleteThat could be it.
Delete2 was a flat and 4 a zigzag
DeleteBoth the EWO and 3rs wave look funky
ReplyDelete