On the other hand, when you do the crossword puzzle, and the clue for 26 across is "NY baseball team", but so far you have HETS as the answer, you KNOW your answer for 21 down probably is wrong. Dead wrong. It doesn't have an H in it - it has an M in it, so the answer to 26 across is METS. I like to treat the market that way, and once the 'heat of battle' is over look things over and ask, 'what I am not understanding here?', or 'how is the market trying to tell me what the real count is that I just don't see yet?'
I did that this morning, and I came up with a big fat H in the name for the NY baseball team. And, so, as simply as the crossword: something was wrong. Get the eraser out and change it! What? Who gets crosswords done without error, every time?
Yesterday, I published that we may have had a zigzag down - based on the ES futures. But, when I went over to cash I found - you guessed it - a degree violation! Several of them. And, as I stated during the market day, "something was wrong with the ending diagonal being in the wrong location".
The biggest problem is located on Wednesday's chart; the FED day. The downward wave made that day is just "too long" to be a sub-wave of another wave lower. This means it must somehow be part of a continuing (likely third wave) in progress. Here is the chart with the problem wave.
S&P500 Cash Index - 5 Minutes - The Problem Wave |
Now, let's reassess the count with proper degree labeling, and all potential diagonals in the correct locations.
S&P500 Cash Index - 5 Minutes - Proper Relative Degrees Notes |
We now see the ending diagonal at the low wasn't that at all, but it's more common contracting triple zigzag (B) wave of ((B)). And now the count overall is of an Expanding Leading Diagonal ((A)) wave down, which is of a 5-3-5-3-5 construction followed by a Flat ((B)) wave up. The 5-3-5-3-5 construction is the only time a third wave may be a diagonal (and it's in a diagonal wave). We showed on the 3-min chart that wave (1) down was a five wave sequence. The form of the overall diagonal is ugly, but it agrees with the futures, and the measurements are correct. Wave (5) is longer than wave (3) which is longer than wave (1). Wave (4) is longer than wave (2) and overlaps wave (1) without traveling beyond the end of wave wave (2), and the motive waves - downward - are all five-wave sequences.
It is important to note the level of the Elliott Wave Oscillator at various locations. It bottoms on the ((A)) wave, and then diverges on the (B) wave low. Finally, at the end, it is simply too high for a fourth wave. And that is what raises the likelihood of a higher probability ((B)) wave up. Clearly the wave is not following The Eight Fold Path Method, and that is why we suspect only a corrective zigzag overall is in the making.
This all means there should likely be a ((C)) wave down beginning on Monday morning some time. This is possibly to get the ((C)) wave down to the 61.8% retracement level to make a deeper wave within the potential hourly diagonal that we showed on Friday.
Once again, we have a chart making a clear prediction from the assessment of degree labels. Now, we need to see if that comes true. Are anyone else's charts even making a prediction? But you want to pay them for it, right?
Have a good day.
TraderJoe
P.S. Because of the really intelligent question, I have attached a chart, below, of how the DJIA 'could' have avoided the degree violation between Minor 4 and Intermediate (4). I have no proof, except that the January wave was so out of character, that it could have been a b:3 wave.
DJIA Cash Index - Daily - How it 'Could' Have Avoided a Degree Violation |
That means the "net distance traveled from wave 3 to wave 4" would be less, thereby avoiding the degree conflict.
Thank you for that explanation. In your DJIA count http://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2018/09/dow-jones-industrials-proves-case.html
ReplyDeleteyou have the intermediate 4th wave low in April different from the SP500 count. The DJIA intermediate 4th wave is larger in price magnitude than that of it's one greater degree 4th (2015-2016). This is not the case for the SPX. Isn't that a problem in EW theory? Thanks
No. I don't think so. Elliott was once asked the question, "What if there was a stock average with more than 30 stocks in it?". Elliott's answer was, that "then it would be a more perfect average." You see, Elliott was keenly aware that very purpose of the average is to 'smooth out' fluctuations. GE at the time of wave 4 was pummeling the Dow lower. It is one out of only 30 stocks.
DeleteThe S&P500 did not have that problem with being over-weighted in GE. It is 500 stocks, not 30. That's why I trusted it more - for a valid mathematical reason that relates to wave theory.
I also saw the 'possibility' that wave 3 in the Dow didn't end at the exact high. It may have ended lower with a very complex wave 4 that caused the 'net distance traveled' to be less. In other words, it made five-waves down - which confused Prechter, but those were the c wave of a much larger flat, which then went on to make a combination flat in the DOW. This results is a lower 'net distance traveled' if wave 3 is lower. Then, the degree violation is avoided.
I view this as a very esoteric point in wave theory, and not one that many people are interested in. So, I don't publish on it. But, I have definitely considered it.
The thing I am happiest about is that you are actually interested in the topic of wave degree. Kudos to you!
Because of the really intelligent question, I have attached a chart after the main article as to how the Dow could have avoided its degree violation. Again, I have no proof, but there was something very, very odd in that January up wave (i.e. vertical with virtually no retraces).
DeleteCan an expanding diagonal constitute a 3rd wave? I have never seen that before, but I am not sure if it is allowed.
ReplyDeleteI answered that question in the article.
Delete"The 5-3-5-3-5 construction is the only time a third wave may be a diagonal (and it's in a diagonal wave)."
ReplyDeleteThis is news to me. I've never heard of a DT in the 3rd wave position. Do you have a reference for this in either Prechter's or Neely's book? Thanks.
First. The rules in the MotiveWave program allow it - which I thought was interesting enough. Second, if you think about it, if the construction of the diagonal is 'actually' 5-3-5-3-5, then "any five" has to be allowed in that middle wave. Neither Neely or Prechter specifically address this issue. They do not like talking about diagonals much. Therefore, if the diagonal construction is really 5-3-5-3-5 I think the onus is on others to say why a 'particular' type of 'five' is not allowed in that middle wave. Again, MotiveWave rules and logic says it's OK.
DeleteSo basically, these people have thrown out the "no overlap" rule, as long as the overlap occurs in either the 1st or 3rd waves and the measurements qualify. If it's good enough for a 1st wave, then let's make it good enough for a 3rd wave too. What will they think of next? Seems to me that the more logical count is to call Thursday's high a truncation (that didn't truncate in the DOW.) Then you end up with wave i as a LD to 2795, wave ii to 2807, wave 3 to 2778, a running wave iv to 2779, and wave v to 2764. Then a 50% retracement of that impulse wave back up to 2790.
DeleteThe EWO argues strongly against your revised version. Where it that fourth wave crossing zero? Not there. I'll just stay with objective measurements, thanks.
DeleteI don't use the EWO, and in my count there is no 4th wave, as I have each wave from 2604 subdividing by 3. (2729-2700-2815) NAZ/NDX have already had massive overlaps, so I don't expect the rally from 2700 to have a 4th or 5th wave, unless 2700-2815 was wave (1) of an EDT.
DeleteGeepers. What planet do you live on? On the hourly chart (see Friday) and numerous comments, I've said this could be wave (1) of an EDT. I am now trying to count a zigzag lower for (2) of such an EDT.
DeleteSo here's the deal. None of your posts to me show any level of 'empathy' or identification with the writer as a wave counter. Therefore, you have one chance and one chance only to provide a post that has some 'human' character in it - by way of an apology or an "I understand that". Before there is an argument.
Failing to do that on your very next post will get your account axed from this blog. Being able to comment here is a privilege I allow and not your right.
Again, I do not want my readers to be exposed to 1) your ungrateful and argumentative personality, 2) your almost always incorrect wave counting - always with an alternate, and 3) your 'know it all' attitude.
I listen to the people on this blog, and what they are thinking. It was in response to one that I added a chart today. It was in response to another that I 'seriously' considered a flat wave was in progress.
You are listening to no one right now but the voice in your head. I hope it is keeping you company. Don't test me on this. There will be no further warning. I want the open exchange of ideas but you are NOT openly exchanging. You appear more to be here to try to 'prove' you are a better wave counter than someone.
IF your account gets cut off, consider it no one's fault but your own. Then you will be free to comment on the other blogs who's wave counts are almost always wrong - and you can look better than them. No more warnings.
Excellent analysis as always Joe. I'm learning something every day...i knew this recent downturn didn't look completely impulsive to me and more corrective...but i like everyone else need to wait, be patient and let the market tell us...hope you have a great weekend sir
ReplyDeleteThanks Shawn.
DeleteTrader Joe- any idea on oil count. thanks
ReplyDeleteI said we were impulsing down. Haven't finished it. EWO says still in wave 3. Need to significantly break the downward sloping parallel upward at some point.
DeleteIf I understand correctly, even if C now equates to A, (basis 5min chart) this just closes the 7th's gap, and remains above the "B" level of w1 for the ending contracting diagonal you proposed. Is this correct?
ReplyDeleteThanks!
Basically, but nothing magic about "B". It could offer support but is not required to do so.
DeleteJoe
ReplyDeleteoutstanding work
whats website that was down for the count lol
and
circle A and circle B could be 1 2 ?
IS the "prediction" is for
1) an impulse down, or
2) an impulse down to end a zigzag
2)
Deletealso, i understand that this whole up move doesn't count as ABC since A and C are similar in price and time. But the (1) of C for diagonal has a zig zag with A and C with very similar price and time proportions. Why is one acceptable and the other not? Thanks for passing along your knowledge
ReplyDeleteTime of the larger zigzag = 21 bars & 21 bars, hourly. Time of the smaller zigzag = 10 bars and 7 bars, a 30% difference.
DeleteI am expecting a gap higher on Monday.
ReplyDeleteHow'd that work out?
DeleteDo you now think that the wave from 2604 to 2814 is complete? That is, it was corrective and has just 3 sub-waves, namely a-b-c, not 1-2-3-4-5? And now we are in a pullback which began with the gap down Thursday morning. And so far in this pullback, we have seen wave 1 down and part or all of wave 2 correcting back upward? If so, do you have a target for the pullback, perhaps the 'b' wave low of the initial rally, which was 2700? Should the pullback have a 1-2-3-4-5 form, or be another a-b-c?
ReplyDeleteDecline should be in three waves from 2814 to 2745 or ~the 62% retrace.
Delete2815-2804 (1) - 2814 (2) - 2764 (3) - 2790 (4) - 2745 (5) [today] is indeed a 62% retrace. Let's see if that works. At least it should be good for a decent bounce. Maybe it's the 'a' wave of an a-b-c correction. I think we need more *time* for the full correction.
DeleteSo far, down 70 points. A bounce would be about 30 points to 2775.
hmmm... expanding diagonals are very rare. I normally stop reading the analysis when someone presents anything expanding on it because the chance of being wrong is so huge.
ReplyDeleteYet, it led to an exactly correct prediction for this morning, lower, and now by about -22 S&P points. Go ahead and not listen if that's what you like ..
DeleteHi Joe, in your daily DJIA and 5m SP500 there are expanded flats with big B waves.
ReplyDeleteWhat percentage of A can a B travel at most in an expanded flat wave?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Edgar