While we are waiting to see if any new daily fractal lows are made today, a lot of interest has cropped up around the proper way to measure Expanded Flats. This is probably because of a number of Elliott Wave sites who are projecting expanded flats from the high. So, because their sites claim there is an Expanded Flat in progress, people think they can badger me to complete the work others are not showing you, rather than badger them! This is clearly quite rude, but emotions do not run this blog. The Elliott Wave does. People want this education for free, and they don't even want to have to read a book so that the education sinks in and becomes a part of their second nature. Too bad for them. Well, here it is.
S&P500 Cash Index - Weekly - Expanded Flat |
First some definitions:
Regular Flat - A regular flat 'always' starts with three-waves-down to (A), as shown above, as A,B,C on the left. In a Regular Flat the (B) wave remains with a zone of 90% to 105% of the length of the (A) wave. This example is not shown above. The above example is for the Expanded Flat, below. The (B) wave must occur as a 'three', either as a zigzag, multiple zigzag or in rare instances a Flat, itself. Again, the (B) wave will stay within 90 - 105% of (A), but it must make the 90% level by Elliott wave 'rule'. In such cases the expectation is that the (C) wave, not shown above will just be (C) = (A) or very close to it. In such cases, the (C) wave barely pips under than (A) wave.
Expanded Flat - The term 'expanded flat' means the (B) wave is 'greater than the 105%' expected in the regular flat wave. This is because the market forces were extraordinarily strong during the rise, as with a QE program, reduction of interest rates, etc. propelling the market initially higher. In compensation, the (C) wave is expected to 'expand' greater than a typical (C) = (A) to make a meaningful correction to the price movement. An expanded flat must 'also' start with just three waves down, as A,B,C on the left in the above chart. Then, the (B) wave in three waves 'must' exceed 105%. In the case shown above, the (B) wave just pips over the 1.618% level in three waves, shown as A, triangle-B and C up to the (B) wave before the (C) wave down takes over.
Measuring Expanded Flats
- Because the term 'expanded' is used in the flat, one uses the Fibonacci expansion ruler, and NOT the Fibonacci retrace ruler.
- The 'anchor point' or 'origin point' of the ruler is placed at beginning of the (A) wave, the red 0, shown above.
- The measurement of the (A) wave is taken, with the first point, the red 1, shown above, at the end of the (A) wave. This is shown with the dotted line down to the 1, although the dotted line is offset slightly so you can see it. In reality, you will hit the low of (A) exactly, and if your software allows, actually anchor the point on the end of the (A) wave.
- Next, the Expansion Point, shown as red 2, is drawn out to the (B) wave high at 3,394. Again, the dotted line to 2, is offset so you can see it. In reality you will hit the end of the (B) wave exactly, and anchor on that point if your software allows.
- The projection of (C) shown as point red 3, is then given by the Fibonacci extensions that travel downward. As the whole purpose of the Expanded Flat is to make a deeper correction than the (C) = (A) of a Regular Flat, one looks for the most common Fibonacci extension points beyond the low of the (A) wave. Those points are 1.618 x (A), subtracted from (B), 2.00 x (A), subtracted from (B) and 2.618 x (A), subtracted from (B). These are all common Fibonacci ratios.
- In the example above, the (C) wave stopped at 2.00 x (A), subtracted from (B), an acceptable result.
- In the example above, it should be clear the 1.618 expansion, also shown above, would not have resulted in a new low beyond the (A) wave which is the whole mission of an expanded flat. Therefore, one looks to the next Fibonacci level ratios to see where an ending point might be.
- CAUTION: there is no Elliott Wave rule that states what the length of the (C) wave will be. There is only a general guideline for flats that (C) will be between 100% x (A), and 165% x (A) and it is based on the authors' experiences to that point in time when the rules were written, and primarily on the Dow Jones Industrial Average. The above chart is of the S&P500 which includes the greater volatility from a high proportion of tech stocks.
ES Futures - 4 Hr - The Fourth Wave Conundrum |
Thanks TJ. If we get further weakness, I am also looking at a running triangle that starts the first part of September 2021
ReplyDeleteTJ: Couldn't agree with you more on all points. Traders: educate yourself and do your own work, it will improve your results if you're diligent. Also, market patterns usually have more than one potential Elliott "solution". Finally, beware the human brains tendency to see completed patterns.
ReplyDeleteNow, do that for inflation adjusted S&P. Normally inflation is negligible, but not now.
ReplyDeleteSPX - this was posted a week ago. The 2.00 fib (not shown) would be just slightly exceeded by the low at (a).
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/erpxc3rp7cg7vqv/expflatspx.PNG/file
👍 thanks GW & TJ for your work. I think the expanded flat from November highs is also possible.
Delete@Tim; let's be clear GW thinks it is from the SEP high! See above.
DeleteTJ
SPX 5-min: there is a potential wedge to the downside. Watch 4,605 cash. If that breaks the wedge will have broken upward.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/t15gAri0/
TJ
TJ...are you showing the proposed diagonal in previous post broken lower as a v failure or invalidation? The number on the SPY is close so this wedge could morph to a leading diagonal to the downside.
DeleteI have to point out 2 mistakes in your post. 1) There is no tool called "Fibonacci expansion ruler" on tradingview. The correct name is "Trend-Based Fib Extension". 2) Your comment should read "(B) = 1.7626 X (A)" because that is the correct ratio of (B) to (A) and that value has nothing to do with the "ruler" used. And I will add that nothing prior to 2941 (the starting point of (A)) on your chart is used in your analysis.
ReplyDeleteBob - you are entering the realm of being a nuisance poster. The first issue is not a 'mistake'. The name is dependent on the software package. In the main post, above, I have shown how the MotiveWave software platform calls it the Fibonacci Expansion tool. Others are shown as well.
DeleteYou are correct as to the second point. It is 1.7626 which is slightly beyond the 1.618. And so what? It is what it is and made a lower low (C) wave in contradistinction to Neely who says "this can't happen" in his book. Yet, the DOW made 'less than' a 1.618 (B) wave in the example shown, and it too made the lower (C) wave. So just what is your darn point? Either let me know or be done with it.
TJ
Now do exactly the same analysis on ((A)) and ((B)). You can skip all your steps and just figure out what your comment would say: "((B))=3.5 X ((A))" which is too large for a flat. That is the point I have been driving home which you just aren't seeing.
Delete@Bob .. why would I use the same procedure for measuring a larger Primary ((B)) wave up, as for measuring 'the end of a flat' (C) wave down. What I don't think you can see is that these are 'two different measurements'.
DeleteTJ
Some day you will figure it out. I give up.
Delete@Bob..right now you're just treating yourself like the 'smartest kid on the block'. Do list the titles and authors of the eight books you have read on Elliott Wave. And show me some wave calls you have made. Mine certainly have not always been correct.
DeleteAnd, if you're simply trying to say 'too long for a ((B)) wave', then see my post of Sunday Jan 2. I have already addressed that issue, but the count of five-up has some weaknesses in it.
Anyway, only the market is correct. I just try to read the waves according to what's in the books.
Question: what do you get if you and a friend measure a football yardline but your friend's ruler is 'bent' by the forces of inflation or QE? You get two different 'apparent' measurements, don't you? That why Prechter and others use 'inflation adjusted' prices or prices compared to Gold sometimes to reach conclusions. But I suspect you already know that cause you're the smartest kid on the block, right? Sass me off, I'll sass you back.
TJ
Invalidation of upward diagonal is at 4569.91 in SPX.
ReplyDeleteYes, cash SPX has invalidated a diagonal.
DeleteTJ
ES daily - I will be interested to see what Ira Epstein has to say tonight but as far as I can tell, with today's lower daily low the swing line indicator has turned from higher-high lower-low to lower-high, lower-low per the attached chart.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/S8FeAkDS/
We are at/near the location of the lower daily Bollinger Band, however, and the slow stochastic is currently in over-sold territory below 30.
TJ
just a fact to be aware of..the low so far today also pipped below the S3 support level of 4,561 using the Classic or Standard Daily Pivot Point calculations. There is nothing that says price can't go further.
DeleteTJ
Rules about Swing Lines (derived from observation of Ira's charts)
Delete1. Lower Low day --> Swing Line goes to to the lower low
2. Higher High day --> Swing Line goe to the Higher High
3. Inside day --> Swing Line "inverts" (that is if it was on a low it goes to the high, if it was on a high it goes on the low of the day)
4. Outside day up --> Swing Line goes to the low of the day
5. Outside day down --> Swing Line goes to the high of the day
FWIW, I forgot to add that Ira's Slow Stochastics seems to be:
Delete%K = 3
%D = 5
and Exponential Moving Average (EMA) seems to be used, not SMA.
That replicates almost exactly the charts he posts.
https://schrts.co/UxgBbKgS
ReplyDeleteSPX - is breaking short term trend lines and long term from October low of ‘20.
Fibs, and TradingView's tools [if interested]
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/wf0dfnav7pyn0l0/Fibs.PNG/file
..basically correct, although the name changes by software package. As far as I can tell extensions and expansions are vice-versa in MotiveWave. And I still can't tell why a 0-A-A expansion (in your chart) proves useful.
DeleteTJ
TJ
Different views of the same fib measures. The software industry hasn't helped the situation for sure. :o)
Deletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/mq8x3jkwuiqzriv/Different.PNG/file
Thanks for this post TJ. I'll be bookmarking this along with several others from the past (diagonals, channels, 8Fold method, etc).
ReplyDeleteWe have the 78.6% level for the down wave to help distinguish between triangle vs expanded flat. However, what are your thoughts on the parameters to rule out Running Flats? Does the C wave need to be a five wave structure in Running flat?
Thanks again
Interesting you should you ask, because as you were writing this question I think I was finding this true 'running flat' on the SPX 1 -min chart.
Deletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/ZNINojzE/
IF there is an error in the wave labeling it is that we are still in the strong wave three.
TJ
No error in the count; overall wave was 'in a wedge' (blue) and not in a parallel.
Deletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/knnbYoiW/
Since 'running waves' often indicate strong third waves to follow them, are they seen 'most often' in second wave positions? If they are in a 'b' wave, do they indicate the strong C wave to follow them? If they are in a fourth wave, do they indicate the 'extended fifth' wave ahead of them?
TJ
SPX ,,made a further lower low. The five-waves-up could have been the end of a prior flat. This is still indicating weakness. IF the potential triangle busts, and it may have, already, then a top 'could be' IN - as shown with the DOW (W)-(X)-(Y)-(X)-(Z) count shown prior.
ReplyDeleteTJ
The Russell 2K appears to be about to make a daily close below the lower support line since early 2021, which on a daily basis is around 2130. This would imply distribution has entered markdown. When you posted that chart of the Dow, that's what I think is the correct view - pattern is complete. I think you may have over-thought the S&P a bit. Still even on the R2K the price action is right at the decision point sitting at 2100 as I type. The next week or two could be really significant.
DeleteThanks for writing in. Well we'll see what the market algorithms think with prices at the lower daily Bollinger Band. I'm all for lower prices, but the daily slow stochastic is over-sold and not embedded.
DeleteTJ
These are 'tentative wave labels' only on the SPX. No assumptions are being made. I'll be watching for clues (gaps) in the overnight.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/IzGccUJA/
TJ
TJ - Thanks for pointing out the running (expanded) flat above!! This allowed me to come up with an answer (right or wrong) regarding ext. retraces of expanded "running" flats. Subject closed here. :o)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/ypcuwnm9ogiz0su/Runningflat.PNG/file
SPX weekly - thoughts? https://ibb.co/5j2XnWM
ReplyDelete..this is getting very old. Please see my post of Sun Jan 2. While possible, there are several issues with that count, not the least of which is the small 38% retrace for wave 2.
DeleteTJ
Here is a link to a free audio interview with Tom McClellan (current proprietor of the McClellan Oscillator) that I thought readers of this blog might find interesting.
ReplyDeleteTom McClellan Free Audio Interview
Cheers!
TJ
Thanks for posting! :0)
DeleteSPXcfd (4hrs) - Closing in ...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/lq51dtus1abfcfh/4hrSPXcfd.PNG/file
Crude - ES (wkly) 10yr stagger (plus a 3PDh bonus) -
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/3mjvizrjknc45cr/CrudeES.PNG/file
That is very interesting!
DeleteThis suggests a very Armageddon-like SPX target correct?
DeleteYM vs ES (dly) -
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/1bva55igse8ni55/YMES.PNG/file
Have tagged today's pivot from underneath
ReplyDeleteSPXcfd (10min) This morning's pivot test
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/o23hbi50qk9jtbi/pivottest.PNG/file
Midterm Election yrs - from the quants at LPL Research
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/xowmi0gkp7p23r4/midyrcorrections.PNG/file
Really good stuff GW, thank you.
DeleteES 30-min: here are some local fractals to keep an eye on; the market is still deciding.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/KqG2JqAv/
TJ
ES 30-min: now tags lower intraday Bollinger Band.
DeleteTJ
ES 30-min: first down (red) fractal back has been exceeded lower.
DeleteTJ
fyi - SPX cash keeps taking out its low, while futures have not yet exceeded the morning low.
ReplyDeleteTJ
finally, the lower low from the ES futures contract.
DeleteTJ
cfd - has taken out 12/20 low
ReplyDeleteGDX/SPY (mthly) - keep an eye on this one.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/l213simmdw0oh58/GDXSPY.PNG/file
I've been watching GDX and it's younger brother GDXJ since before the pandemic for a long term opportunity on metals play. Both of these have strong correlation with gold and silver prices as expected. As equities, they also have positive beta to major indices (yesterday was a rare exception).
DeleteTJ's current count for Gold is a Primary Triangle IV, with wave C of C impending which will take Gold price down to approx $1400. See link below. This will also be a huge headwind for GDX. Perhaps SPY goes down at a faster rate than GDX which should continue to push this ratio higher and worth monitoring. In any case, I'm looking for a multi year rally in GDX after Gold finishes it's triangle IV in a few years.
What are your thoughts? HUI and GDX monthly chart are a mess to count, so leaning on the GLD count
http://studyofcycles.blogspot.com/2021/08/follow-up-on-gold.html
Additionally, the move up in GLD and Silver yesterday was very puzzling. It usually tracks pretty closely to UDN (inverse Dollar), XDN (Japanese Yen), and TIP (Inflation adjusted Treasury notes). Compare their weekly/monthly charts side by side. Yesterday, there was no meaningful move up in any of these three to explain a sizable move in GLD and Silver, and by extension GDX/GDXJ.
DeleteNone of this is EW speak, so I'd be curious on your thoughts on a long term GDX count as mentioned earlier.
Probably just a sign that this is a technical move and not supported by fundamentals.
The es is below 100 day average.
ReplyDeleteGOOG - precarious? (click to sharpen)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/sljejoaoy5uhp7y/GOOG.PNG/file
Thx for this. As a one of the FAANGs, I've been watching GOOG closely as well as a sign of some kind of a top in the markets. It's weekly Bollinger Band has been squeezing and now starting to curl wider. To me this indicates a large impending move, either down or up. My preference is up, it'll give us a very nice monthly divergency on RSI and MACD.
DeleteBTC decision time soon, break out of the channel or test lower support?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tradingview.com/x/01Eu7zDe/
HD (wkly) - Pullback(?) off resistance
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/g2fujjv3r2izhz8/HD.PNG/file
Anybody monitoring a one year triangle on gold?
ReplyDeleteHere's what I'm keeping an eye on (fwiw) -
Deletehttps://www.mediafire.com/view/8zj32a7ueui5c4c/goldmthly.PNG/file
I was thinking (B) of C on TJ's August 7th chart. I have seen 3 different triangles in the last week.
Delete((2))((4)) TL reached in less time than ((5)) took to form. Exceeding 'b' is key.
ReplyDeletewhat instrument does this refer to?
DeleteTJ
Prior post on SPXcfd (4hr/30m) -
DeleteA new post is started for the next day.
ReplyDeleteTJ