Saturday, November 14, 2020

For Those Seeking "Five-Up"

Make no mistake, there are a LOT of people on the Internet, amateurs and professionals alike - many of whom partially or completely ignore degree labeling - who are looking for a clean "five-up" from the 23 March low of this year. As you know, this site tries not to ignore enforcement of proper degree labels. With that in mind the close-only chart below shows what I believe to be the best chance for those who want to see "five-up" to get it.

ES Futures - Daily Close - Wave in a Wedge

The key to this analysis is that the Sep - Nov correction is the largest correction in price and time, as noted. There just is no disputing that measurement. So, with that in mind, and the fact that the Dow made a clean A-B-C down into the October low, this should mean that this correction is at least of the same degree as the first minor B wave down to the end of June, or it is of one larger degree. It is my considered opinion that since the first A wave down in September is longer in price than the Minor B wave down in June, and because the correction takes so much more time, that the wave is of a higher degree, an Intermediate degree wave.

As such, if the first three waves up are A,B,C to a (W) wave, then the down wave can be an Intermediate (X) wave. But, if the first three waves up are the very same A,B,C to an Intermediate (1) wave, then the correction to the October low could be three-waves down to an Intermediate (2) wave of a potential diagonal.

We have already cracked the high since once. This could be a Minor A wave of wave Intermediate (3) of such a diagonal or it could just as well be to Intermediate (Y) of a double or triple-zigzag. Before going on too far, it should be realized that one reason not to like the above count for a diagonal fifth wave is that "most-often", "typically", not always, diagonals have much larger retrace waves in the area of 50 - 85% retraces. This retrace is less than 38.2%! This is noted on the chart. 

Also, noted is that any downward wave must stay above the wave (2) or (X) low, for a diagonal not to be invalidated. It can not break it by even one tick in the futures market. Sorry, but this is a hard and fast rule. This is noted on the chart too. In such a chart, it might be difficult for some to distinguish between the triple zigzag count of a Primary ((B)) wave, or the three zigzags inside of an ending diagonal for a Primary ((5)) wave.

But now .. with sentiment having flipped very bullish most recently, what if the wedge breaks? Then there is an way for the Intermediate (X) wave to extend in price and time, as below.

ES Futures - Daily Close - Wave Breaks a Wedge

There are three roughly equal possible wave counts that would agree with degree labeling. Which will occur? Sentiment seems to favor the larger (X) wave, but we can not rule out the other two in the first chart. The only purpose behind this post is to correct what I think are incorrect degree labels by others studying the waves, and to provide a "face-saving" way to get the five-up with correct degree labeling.

So stay tuned, and ...

Have an excellent rest of the weekend.

TraderJoe


27 comments:

  1. Side note, adding on to my comments from Friday's post, I have now also noticed the 1.236 ratio for expanded flats is highly similar from the ((A)) and A of (X) (ONLY relevant IF the expanded flat plays out! Not guaranteed)

    https://www.tradingview.com/x/990jVyF7/

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  2. 2. Wave (2) in a diagonal .. please use the correct degree symbols, they are easy to type ..may not be a flat. It may 'only' be a zigzag as has actually formed in the Dow. The S&P 'may' be considered a truncated zigzag, but it can also be part of a Flat for the larger (X) wave.
    1. I have already mentioned in the post, that the short wave (2) - being less than 38% - would be atypical of diagonals. That is just the inverse of your observation that wave 1 is multiple times the size of the other waves. It causes me to prefer the longer (X) wave.

    TJ

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  3. Very educational post and discussion.

    Here's another thought, IF ES is doing an expanded triangle instead, shown at this link https://invst.ly/su6ny

    Then wouldn't TJs double or tripple zz count in first chart make the (D) to high? Since It would go way above the trendline? Second chart with deep X would maybe work with this triangle though, but (D) is already pretty complex.

    Please don't ask me how this triangle fits in bigger EW context, all I'm saying is that as of now, it measures pretty good, and should be a valid alternate.

    I know you prefer to count with the trend TJ, and that is very sound in the long term, and something everybody should do, but why ignore this count when it is infront of our eyes?

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    Replies
    1. TJ if you could tell me why (D) likely isn't a tripple zz as of know, then we could put this count on the sideline for a while.
      Does it have to do with this:

      " It is my considered opinion that since the first A wave down in September is longer in price than the Minor B wave down in June, and because the correction takes so much more time, that the wave is of a higher degree, an Intermediate degree wave."

      And/or is it because it doesn't channel well?

      If you could answer me, promise not to bring it up anymore..lol

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    2. Erk, please be sure you have read the "Rules" in the Elliott Wave Principle. By "rule" no subwave in an expanding triangle can be beyond 150% of the previous same-directional subwave, even though each subwave 'must' end beyond the end of that previous subwave.

      https://invst.ly/su72h

      The down leg you have labeled as wave (C) is way over 1.618 x (A). It breaks the "Rules", and I won't break the rules.

      And, yes, triple zigzags usually channel well, or form a wedge.
      TJ

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  4. ..another reason to prefer the second chart.

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  5. Not predicting, just some [current] observations. Daily.

    https://funkyimg.com/i/38ELE.png

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    Replies
    1. Thanks GW for sharing your insightful observations. They are highly interesting. Keep it up! Also many thanks to TJ for hosting this very educational blog, esp. for novices like me. So much to learn!

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  6. ES 1-Hr .. still monitoring this hourly trend trend line. "Possible" to count "five-up" in futures. Confirmation would be better with a break, back-test and failure of the up trend line.

    https://www.tradingview.com/x/a0P3tKhz/

    TJ

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    Replies
    1. ...well... the market knows the trend line is there, and bounced off of it. Just fyi - MACD indicating some hourly divergence. Upward futures price did hit 78.6%; not cash, as yet, though.

      https://invst.ly/summ6

      TJ

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  7. Update from Friday hrly - observations

    https://funkyimg.com/i/38FFr.png

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  8. The trend line is beginning to breach.

    https://invst.ly/supd2

    Watching to see if price breaks the prior hourly fractal low or not.
    TJ

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  9. A look at end of day hrly (and VIX daily) -

    https://funkyimg.com/i/38Gdm.png

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    Replies
    1. Thks GW for sharing. Can you please explain the significance of your labelling of the pattern 1-2-3-4-5.on the RSI chart? Are they for the M/W pattern? What are the criteria they have to fulfill to qualify? It will be very kind of you and thanks once again.

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  10. Strange market. We have an unprecedented number of "convenient" gaps past resistance, most coming in the futures market. Despite the "artificial" price action,things imho are showing a very bullish configuration with price now in sideways consolidation. Looking for a second close above 3600 to bring 3700 into play. The market is defying the skills of the best analysts I read. Only one had a bullish EW count as of two weeks ago, but I was not convinced because of how VIX was reacting.

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  11. The ES 1-Hr trend line has broken lower. Also, downside fractals are breaking.

    https://invst.ly/sv2vi

    Further, the ES 4-Hr trend line is right in this area as well.

    https://invst.ly/sv2xn

    TJ

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    Replies
    1. ES ..Sunday night gap-up opening just filled.

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    2. ..showing gap fill: https://invst.ly/sv33y
      TJ

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    3. Yet another island reversal pattern. The last one was short-lived with subsequent new highs. Interesting how normally besrish patterns play out. I will buy the exhaustion gap holding with a close below 3600. The round numbers have been reliable.

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  12. Cash daily - a few measures for reference.

    https://funkyimg.com/i/38H21.png

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  13. Lower trendline of T.J.'s potential diagonal not tagged so we could have seen just an A down B up of a possible fourth.
    Island reversal in NDX already decisively negated. Really amazing!

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  14. On hrly ES, we now have a pos. HD in play, with target of 3645.75. This is viable as long as the 3585 low close remains intact.

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    Replies
    1. Any C down should take it out. Resolution of theptiched batte for 3600 is in my view the critical deciding issue

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  15. 15min cash - current observations

    https://funkyimg.com/i/38Hqa.png

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